Loop error in APNIC whois database
What do you think about the following technical conversation with APNIC: My last reply, no answer yet: But then how cany I query the content of tech-c handle RCNP1-AP ? As demonstrated below, when I do "whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP" then it again shows the same handle, ie. an error loop... XXXXX XXXXX via RT wrote, On 08/28/2012 10:27 AM:
Dear U.Mutlu,
This is not an error. The role object admic-c and tech-c can use nic-handle of other person objects or the nic-handle of the role object itself.
Thanks, -- XXXXX ________________________________________________________________________ APNIC Helpdesk helpdesk@apnic.net Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Tel: +61 7 3858 3188 PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD http://www.apnic.net ________________________________________________________________________ * Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary.
On Tue Aug 28 01:00:01 2012, security@mutluit.com wrote:
Hello, there is a loop (error) in the whois database for the handle RCNP1-AP as it doesn't get resolved, instead it again returns the same handle...:
# whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP
% [whois.apnic.net node-1] % Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html
role: RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED - network administr address: Block No 1-2, & 13-18, 1st & 2nd Floor,Annapurna Shopping Centre, Adajan Patiya Circle, Rander Road, country: IN phone: +91-261-2780343 fax-no: +91-261-2787879 e-mail:abuse@rkinfratel.com admin-c: RCNP1-AP tech-c: RCNP1-AP nic-hdl: RCNP1-AP mnt-by: MAINT-RKCABLENET-IN changed:hm-changed@apnic.net 20120523 source: APNIC
Regards, U.Mutlu
Hi, I don't quite see the error you keep mentioning. If there's no wish to have any person objects bound to the role object, then it's perfectly valid. What's the problem you keep on pointing towards? -- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS mai: ij@beevpn.com On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:10 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
What do you think about the following technical conversation with APNIC:
My last reply, no answer yet:
But then how cany I query the content of tech-c handle RCNP1-AP ? As demonstrated below, when I do "whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP" then it again shows the same handle, ie. an error loop...
XXXXX XXXXX via RT wrote, On 08/28/2012 10:27 AM:
Dear U.Mutlu,
This is not an error. The role object admic-c and tech-c can use nic-handle of other person objects or the nic-handle of the role object itself.
Thanks, -- XXXXX ________________________________________________________________________ APNIC Helpdesk helpdesk@apnic.net Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Tel: +61 7 3858 3188 PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD http://www.apnic.net ________________________________________________________________________ * Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary.
On Tue Aug 28 01:00:01 2012, security@mutluit.com wrote:
Hello, there is a loop (error) in the whois database for the handle RCNP1-AP as it doesn't get resolved, instead it again returns the same handle...:
# whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP
% [whois.apnic.net node-1] % Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html
role: RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED - network administr address: Block No 1-2, & 13-18, 1st & 2nd Floor,Annapurna Shopping Centre, Adajan Patiya Circle, Rander Road, country: IN phone: +91-261-2780343 fax-no: +91-261-2787879 e-mail:abuse@rkinfratel.com admin-c: RCNP1-AP tech-c: RCNP1-AP nic-hdl: RCNP1-AP mnt-by: MAINT-RKCABLENET-IN changed:hm-changed@apnic.net 20120523 source: APNIC
Regards, U.Mutlu
I need to know the tech-c contact, how do I get it? Ian Johannesen wrote, On 08/28/2012 02:16 PM:
Hi,
I don't quite see the error you keep mentioning. If there's no wish to have any person objects bound to the role object, then it's perfectly valid. What's the problem you keep on pointing towards?
-- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards,
Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS
mai: ij@beevpn.com
On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:10 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
What do you think about the following technical conversation with APNIC:
My last reply, no answer yet:
But then how cany I query the content of tech-c handle RCNP1-AP ? As demonstrated below, when I do "whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP" then it again shows the same handle, ie. an error loop...
XXXXX XXXXX via RT wrote, On 08/28/2012 10:27 AM:
Dear U.Mutlu,
This is not an error. The role object admic-c and tech-c can use nic-handle of other person objects or the nic-handle of the role object itself.
Thanks, -- XXXXX ________________________________________________________________________ APNIC Helpdesk helpdesk@apnic.net Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Tel: +61 7 3858 3188 PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD http://www.apnic.net ________________________________________________________________________ * Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary.
On Tue Aug 28 01:00:01 2012, security@mutluit.com wrote:
Hello, there is a loop (error) in the whois database for the handle RCNP1-AP as it doesn't get resolved, instead it again returns the same handle...:
# whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP
% [whois.apnic.net node-1] % Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html
role: RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED - network administr address: Block No 1-2, & 13-18, 1st & 2nd Floor,Annapurna Shopping Centre, Adajan Patiya Circle, Rander Road, country: IN phone: +91-261-2780343 fax-no: +91-261-2787879 e-mail:abuse@rkinfratel.com admin-c: RCNP1-AP tech-c: RCNP1-AP nic-hdl: RCNP1-AP mnt-by: MAINT-RKCABLENET-IN changed:hm-changed@apnic.net 20120523 source: APNIC
Regards, U.Mutlu
Hi, Well you just use the data in the role object - as it is the tech-c (as it's also marked). -- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS mai: ij@beevpn.com On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:30 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
I need to know the tech-c contact, how do I get it?
Ian Johannesen wrote, On 08/28/2012 02:16 PM:
Hi,
I don't quite see the error you keep mentioning. If there's no wish to have any person objects bound to the role object, then it's perfectly valid. What's the problem you keep on pointing towards?
-- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards,
Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS
mai: ij@beevpn.com
On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:10 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
What do you think about the following technical conversation with APNIC:
My last reply, no answer yet:
But then how cany I query the content of tech-c handle RCNP1-AP ? As demonstrated below, when I do "whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP" then it again shows the same handle, ie. an error loop...
XXXXX XXXXX via RT wrote, On 08/28/2012 10:27 AM:
Dear U.Mutlu,
This is not an error. The role object admic-c and tech-c can use nic-handle of other person objects or the nic-handle of the role object itself.
Thanks, -- XXXXX ________________________________________________________________________ APNIC Helpdesk helpdesk@apnic.net Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Tel: +61 7 3858 3188 PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD http://www.apnic.net ________________________________________________________________________ * Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary.
On Tue Aug 28 01:00:01 2012, security@mutluit.com wrote:
Hello, there is a loop (error) in the whois database for the handle RCNP1-AP as it doesn't get resolved, instead it again returns the same handle...:
# whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1-AP
% [whois.apnic.net node-1] % Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html
role: RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED - network administr address: Block No 1-2, & 13-18, 1st & 2nd Floor,Annapurna Shopping Centre, Adajan Patiya Circle, Rander Road, country: IN phone: +91-261-2780343 fax-no: +91-261-2787879 e-mail:abuse@rkinfratel.com admin-c: RCNP1-AP tech-c: RCNP1-AP nic-hdl: RCNP1-AP mnt-by: MAINT-RKCABLENET-IN changed:hm-changed@apnic.net 20120523 source: APNIC
Regards, U.Mutlu
-----Original Message----- From: anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:anti-abuse-wg- bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of U.Mutlu Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:11 PM To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
when I do "whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1- AP" then it again shows the same handle, ie. an error loop...
role: RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED - network administr address: Block No 1-2, & 13-18, 1st & 2nd Floor,Annapurna Shopping Centre, Adajan Patiya Circle, Rander Road, country: IN phone: +91-261-2780343 fax-no: +91-261-2787879 e-mail: abuse@rkinfratel.com admin-c: RCNP1-AP tech-c: RCNP1-AP nic-hdl: RCNP1-AP mnt-by: MAINT-RKCABLENET-IN changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20120523 source: APNIC I see this as a way of saying 'for administrative or technical issues, use this same contact information, such as the email address abuse@rkinfratel.com'. Why do you consider it an error? -- Thor Kottelin http://www.anta.net/
I would say "also check the domain's whois contacts" but .. ugh. Domain Name: RKINFRATEL.COM Registrant: PrivacyProtect.org Domain Admin (contact@privacyprotect.org) ID#10760, PO Box 16 Note - All Postal Mails Rejected, visit Privacyprotect.org Nobby Beach null,QLD 4218 AU Tel. +45.36946676 Creation Date: 20-Oct-2011 Expiration Date: 20-Oct-2012 On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Thor Kottelin <thor.kottelin@turvasana.com> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:anti-abuse-wg- bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of U.Mutlu Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:11 PM To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
when I do "whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1- AP" then it again shows the same handle, ie. an error loop...
role: RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED - network administr address: Block No 1-2, & 13-18, 1st & 2nd Floor,Annapurna Shopping Centre, Adajan Patiya Circle, Rander Road, country: IN phone: +91-261-2780343 fax-no: +91-261-2787879 e-mail: abuse@rkinfratel.com admin-c: RCNP1-AP tech-c: RCNP1-AP nic-hdl: RCNP1-AP mnt-by: MAINT-RKCABLENET-IN changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20120523 source: APNIC
I see this as a way of saying 'for administrative or technical issues, use this same contact information, such as the email address abuse@rkinfratel.com'. Why do you consider it an error?
-- Thor Kottelin http://www.anta.net/
-- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists@gmail.com)
Because of errors in their DNS server I need to contact their tech-c, not their abuse dept. Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote, On 08/28/2012 02:38 PM:
I would say "also check the domain's whois contacts" but .. ugh.
Domain Name: RKINFRATEL.COM
Registrant: PrivacyProtect.org Domain Admin (contact@privacyprotect.org) ID#10760, PO Box 16 Note - All Postal Mails Rejected, visit Privacyprotect.org Nobby Beach null,QLD 4218 AU Tel. +45.36946676
Creation Date: 20-Oct-2011 Expiration Date: 20-Oct-2012
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Thor Kottelin <thor.kottelin@turvasana.com> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:anti-abuse-wg- bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of U.Mutlu Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:11 PM To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
when I do "whois -h whois.apnic.net RCNP1- AP" then it again shows the same handle, ie. an error loop...
role: RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED - network administr address: Block No 1-2, & 13-18, 1st & 2nd Floor,Annapurna Shopping Centre, Adajan Patiya Circle, Rander Road, country: IN phone: +91-261-2780343 fax-no: +91-261-2787879 e-mail: abuse@rkinfratel.com admin-c: RCNP1-AP tech-c: RCNP1-AP nic-hdl: RCNP1-AP mnt-by: MAINT-RKCABLENET-IN changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20120523 source: APNIC
I see this as a way of saying 'for administrative or technical issues, use this same contact information, such as the email address abuse@rkinfratel.com'. Why do you consider it an error?
-- Thor Kottelin http://www.anta.net/
-----Original Message----- From: anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:anti-abuse-wg- bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of U.Mutlu Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:56 PM To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: Thor Kottelin; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
Because of errors in their DNS server I need to contact their tech-c, not their abuse dept.
The Whois information for your domain name mutluit.com shows that several roles share the same NIC handle. Similarly, 'RK CABLE NET PRIVATE LIMITED' has chosen to use RCNP1-AP as both its admin-c and tech-c contact. What would you say if someone objected to your choice, saying 'I need to contact the mutluit.com abuse department, not the hostmaster'? -- Thor Kottelin http://www.anta.net/
U.Mutlu wrote:
Because of errors in their DNS server I need to contact their tech-c, not their abuse dept.
I was under the impression that the contact for (technical) errors regarding DNS zone configuration is to be found in the zone's SOA record, as an RFC822 (or newer) field. And/or by way of the name registry and/or registrar. Where does the numbers registry information come into the picture? Wilfried
Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote, On 08/28/2012 04:14 PM:
U.Mutlu wrote:
Because of errors in their DNS server I need to contact their tech-c, not their abuse dept.
I was under the impression that the contact for (technical) errors regarding DNS zone configuration is to be found in the zone's SOA record, as an RFC822 (or newer) field.
Oops! :-) Yes, you are right. Thx for reminding me of this simple fact :-)
And/or by way of the name registry and/or registrar.
Where does the numbers registry information come into the picture?
Wilfried
Dear Wilfried, Putting aside the specific reason for looking up a contact in this case and look at the wider consequence for the RIPE Database. I thought we disallowed self referencing ROLE objects. But we only disallow creation of self referencing ROLEs using 'AUTO-' and circular references with ROLE A -> ROLE B -> ROLE A. The way the rules are now, taken to an extreme, the entire RIPE Database could exist without a single 'real' PERSON listed. All number resources could be anonymised by referencing self referencing ROLE objects. All allocations, mandatory organisations for allocations, ASNs, PI resources, routing data could be set up so that no real person takes any responsibility for any resource, publicly. Of course real people still need to sign contracts to become members and get resources, but from a public perspective everything can be totally anonymised as the rules are now. Regards Denis Walker Business Analyst RIPE NCC Database Group On 28/08/2012 16:14, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:
U.Mutlu wrote:
Because of errors in their DNS server I need to contact their tech-c, not their abuse dept.
I was under the impression that the contact for (technical) errors regarding DNS zone configuration is to be found in the zone's SOA record, as an RFC822 (or newer) field.
And/or by way of the name registry and/or registrar.
Where does the numbers registry information come into the picture?
Wilfried
Hi Denis, thanks for the clarification! I do see 3 aspects here: 1. the registration is in the APNIC DB. While I do not see any problem at all, discussing abuse issues on the RIPE Community's anti-abuse mailing list, I am a bit hesitant to accept the potential implication that the RIPE community, or the RIPE NCC, should take the blame for something it/we do not have control of. 2. I was under the impression that in the RIPE DB, a reference to a person object was enforced, at the end of the food chain. If this is not the case right now, we MAY|SHOULD discuss the need for an amendment - but read on! 3. (violating my own item 1. :-) and) looking at the entry as quoted: there is the company's name, the postal address, an abuse@ email: and both a tel. and fax. number. So - what is the added benefit of a person's name (which could easily be Mr. Micky Mouse for the whois record :-) The reason why I am nit-picking here is as follows: imho we should encourage all parties to provide correct and useable information to get in contact if and when there's a good reason for trying to. Requiring, as a strict formality, to provide any and all particular pieces of data and in a very strict format, potentially violating good reasons for not identifying individual persons, may actually impede achievement of our goal. Wilfried. Denis Walker wrote:
Dear Wilfried,
Putting aside the specific reason for looking up a contact in this case and look at the wider consequence for the RIPE Database. I thought we disallowed self referencing ROLE objects. But we only disallow creation of self referencing ROLEs using 'AUTO-' and circular references with ROLE A -> ROLE B -> ROLE A.
The way the rules are now, taken to an extreme, the entire RIPE Database could exist without a single 'real' PERSON listed. All number resources could be anonymised by referencing self referencing ROLE objects. All allocations, mandatory organisations for allocations, ASNs, PI resources, routing data could be set up so that no real person takes any responsibility for any resource, publicly.
Of course real people still need to sign contracts to become members and get resources, but from a public perspective everything can be totally anonymised as the rules are now.
Regards Denis Walker Business Analyst RIPE NCC Database Group
On 28/08/2012 16:14, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:
U.Mutlu wrote:
Because of errors in their DNS server I need to contact their tech-c, not their abuse dept.
I was under the impression that the contact for (technical) errors regarding DNS zone configuration is to be found in the zone's SOA record, as an RFC822 (or newer) field.
And/or by way of the name registry and/or registrar.
Where does the numbers registry information come into the picture?
Wilfried
participants (7)
-
Denis Walker -
Ian Johannesen -
Suresh Ramasubramanian -
Thor Kottelin -
U.Mutlu -
U.Mutlu -
Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet