Personally I find this email to be entirely non-sensical, your specific dealings with cloudflare or other vendors are in my opinion not relevant discourse, but instead of ccing the WG on these why not write up your issues and suggestions into a constructive email for the WG to discuss. Ccing a WG on an abuse complaint doesn’t serve any constructive means that I can see. -jg From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Marilson Date: Monday 5 October 2015 14:30 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight Cc: "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>" Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing Hi Michele, how are you?

Why on earth is this exchange being Cced to this group? Michele given your behavior in anti-abuse-wg, I was already waiting your comment and knew exactly what would you say. After all, Blacknight is a domain register and hosting company. I will not wish you my condolences because I do not know how your company reacts to reports of abuse. If you have an issue with company X and want to discuss it – fine. I did not bring to this group a particular problem with a particular company. I always try into my complaints to cover a spectrum of the problem with respect to the activities of e-mail marketing as a whole. And that's relevant to the group. In this particular case, that you has reacted promptly and as expected, I used my complaint to CloudFlare to discuss the basic and universal foundation of the criminal behavior of ISPs and Registrars. CloudFlare had the right to say - and we with this? Not you! If the data reported and the accusations made are not relevant to the group, close the group because you would be a joke. I understand that if ISPs and Registrars act in accordance with their privacy policies and anti-spam, 90% would be closed and tens of thousands of people would be unemployed. But since when it gives them the right to protect criminals and spammers or to refuse to suspend a scammer as has happened to me? So let's decriminalize the smuggling of weapons, sex slaves, drugs, money laundering, pedophilia, etc., etc., because it will create jobs and money back to the market. Anyway Michele, you're trying to turn the main reason of the existence of anti-abuse in a particular issue in order not to discuss an anti-social behavior that guarantees your job, this might be the reason for your behavior? If not excuse me. I certainly did not bring a particular problem to the group. You're trying to turn it into a particular problem. Please explain why you're doing it. Thanks Marilson

From:Michele Neylon - Blacknight<mailto:michele@blacknight.com> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 5:23 AM To: Marilson<mailto:marilson.mapa@gmail.com> Cc: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing Why on earth is this exchange being Cced to this group? If you have an issue with company X and want to discuss it – fine. It probably won’t help you too much… But Ccing the entire WG on your exchanges with them? -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Marilson Date: Sunday 4 October 2015 23:55 To: CloudFlare Trust & Safety Cc: "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>" Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing Hi Justin, thank you for your quick response. I know that CloudFlare is not a hosting provider and I would add one other thing - the CloudFlare has no crystal ball! Perfect! Nothing to question. On the contrary, I know that you make than 2,000,000 web properties faster and safer, but dear, who will protect more than 6,000,000,000 of peoples against some CloudFlare clients who are accomplice of scammers and spammers and use PIA? Look, already in May 2009 Lance Whitney wrote to CNET: “Spam now accounts for 90.4 percent of all e-mail, according to a report released Monday from security vendor Symantec. This means that 1 out of every 1.1 e-mails is junk. The report also notes that spam shot up 5.1 percent just from April to May.” http://www.cnet.com/news/report-spam-now-90-percent-of-all-e-mail/ These numbers explain, beyond any doubt because many ISPs and Registrars are accomplices of scammers and spammers. Their privacy policies and anti-spam are the joke of the twenty-first century and nothing is more hypocritical. So Justin, as I said, you have no crystal ball, but I sent you evidence that your client is an accomplice of a scammer, what will you do? Will do as do the greedy sociopaths of Softlayer-IBM, Enzu, Namecheap, eNom, UOL, Lomadee-Experian, m-zone.cz, studenka.cz, Aruba, Locaweb, Microsoft, etc? Bye Marilson From: CloudFlare Trust & Safety<mailto:abuse@cloudflare.com> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:17 PM To: Marilson<mailto:marilson.mapa@gmail.com> Subject: Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing ##- Please type your reply above this line -## Hello marilson.mapa@gmail.com<mailto:marilson.mapa@gmail.com>, Your report (#594134<https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/requests/594134>) has been been replied to. Note -- When responding please make sure to keep #594134<https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/requests/594134> in the subject line. Justin (CloudFlare) Oct 4, 1:17 AM Thank you for your report. To expedite processing of your abuse report, please submit your abuse report through CloudFlare's abuse reporting web form at: https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/ Please be aware CloudFlare offers network service solutions, including a reverse proxy, pass-through security service and a content distribution network (CDN). Because CloudFlare is a reverse proxy, our IP addresses appear in whois and DNS records for websites using our services. CloudFlare is not a hosting provider, and we do not have access to our customer's content. Regards, CloudFlare Trust and Safety This email is a service from CloudFlare. Message-Id:N2X4QD46E1_56107008d4976_ae873f877f2cd328175239_sprut

On 05/10/2015 15:25, Sander Steffann wrote:

Hi,

...

Op 5 okt. 2015, om 15:34 heeft James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net> het volgende geschreven:

Personally I find this email to be entirely non-sensical, your specific dealings with cloudflare or other vendors are in my opinion not relevant discourse, but instead of ccing the WG on these why not write up your issues and suggestions into a constructive email for the WG to discuss. Ccing a WG on an abuse complaint doesn’t serve any constructive means that I can see.

Indeed. This is a *working group*, not a place to dump complaints about certain companies. I understand that the behaviour regarding network abuse of some companies can be extremely frustrating. But what we should work on here is how we can deal with abuse and maybe even try to find a way to convince those companies that they should prevent abuse. This is a working group, we should work towards a solution.

I think this thread is far away from the stated aims of the AA-WG at this point and I would echo James and Sander's comments. We absolutely welcome discussions around abuse issues, suggestions of action, policy proposals and a lot more, but there is no merit to copying the group on every abuse complaint as there is nothing the working group nor the NCC can do, unless policies are changed. There is a clearly stated mechanism for doing this, there are working group co-chairs here to help you with this, so please, get in contact, set out what you would like to achieve and we can work on it. No promises, obviously, because that is what the Policy Development Process is for, but it is, at least, a start. Thanks, Brian Co-Chair, RIPE Anti-Abuse WG

Marilson My behaviour? What on earth are you on about? And as for my job – any statement about “my job” shows how little you know about me .. Anyway I’ll keep this short and to the point. Ccing ANY mailing list with abuse reports and your responses to them is abnormal behaviour. It doesn’t serve any practical purpose and isn’t constructive in any way. Or how about you go read this group’s charter? https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/wg/anti-abuse Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Marilson Date: Monday 5 October 2015 14:30 To: Michele Neylon Cc: "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>" Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing Hi Michele, how are you?

Why on earth is this exchange being Cced to this group? Michele given your behavior in anti-abuse-wg, I was already waiting your comment and knew exactly what would you say. After all, Blacknight is a domain register and hosting company. I will not wish you my condolences because I do not know how your company reacts to reports of abuse. If you have an issue with company X and want to discuss it – fine. I did not bring to this group a particular problem with a particular company. I always try into my complaints to cover a spectrum of the problem with respect to the activities of e-mail marketing as a whole. And that's relevant to the group. In this particular case, that you has reacted promptly and as expected, I used my complaint to CloudFlare to discuss the basic and universal foundation of the criminal behavior of ISPs and Registrars. CloudFlare had the right to say - and we with this? Not you! If the data reported and the accusations made are not relevant to the group, close the group because you would be a joke. I understand that if ISPs and Registrars act in accordance with their privacy policies and anti-spam, 90% would be closed and tens of thousands of people would be unemployed. But since when it gives them the right to protect criminals and spammers or to refuse to suspend a scammer as has happened to me? So let's decriminalize the smuggling of weapons, sex slaves, drugs, money laundering, pedophilia, etc., etc., because it will create jobs and money back to the market. Anyway Michele, you're trying to turn the main reason of the existence of anti-abuse in a particular issue in order not to discuss an anti-social behavior that guarantees your job, this might be the reason for your behavior? If not excuse me. I certainly did not bring a particular problem to the group. You're trying to turn it into a particular problem. Please explain why you're doing it. Thanks Marilson

From:Michele Neylon - Blacknight<mailto:michele@blacknight.com> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 5:23 AM To: Marilson<mailto:marilson.mapa@gmail.com> Cc: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing Why on earth is this exchange being Cced to this group? If you have an issue with company X and want to discuss it – fine. It probably won’t help you too much… But Ccing the entire WG on your exchanges with them? -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Marilson Date: Sunday 4 October 2015 23:55 To: CloudFlare Trust & Safety Cc: "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>" Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing Hi Justin, thank you for your quick response. I know that CloudFlare is not a hosting provider and I would add one other thing - the CloudFlare has no crystal ball! Perfect! Nothing to question. On the contrary, I know that you make than 2,000,000 web properties faster and safer, but dear, who will protect more than 6,000,000,000 of peoples against some CloudFlare clients who are accomplice of scammers and spammers and use PIA? Look, already in May 2009 Lance Whitney wrote to CNET: “Spam now accounts for 90.4 percent of all e-mail, according to a report released Monday from security vendor Symantec. This means that 1 out of every 1.1 e-mails is junk. The report also notes that spam shot up 5.1 percent just from April to May.” http://www.cnet.com/news/report-spam-now-90-percent-of-all-e-mail/ These numbers explain, beyond any doubt because many ISPs and Registrars are accomplices of scammers and spammers. Their privacy policies and anti-spam are the joke of the twenty-first century and nothing is more hypocritical. So Justin, as I said, you have no crystal ball, but I sent you evidence that your client is an accomplice of a scammer, what will you do? Will do as do the greedy sociopaths of Softlayer-IBM, Enzu, Namecheap, eNom, UOL, Lomadee-Experian, m-zone.cz, studenka.cz, Aruba, Locaweb, Microsoft, etc? Bye Marilson From: CloudFlare Trust & Safety<mailto:abuse@cloudflare.com> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:17 PM To: Marilson<mailto:marilson.mapa@gmail.com> Subject: Report updated: (#594134) Conspiracy for the practice of organized crime with phishing ##- Please type your reply above this line -## Hello marilson.mapa@gmail.com<mailto:marilson.mapa@gmail.com>, Your report (#594134<https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/requests/594134>) has been been replied to. Note -- When responding please make sure to keep #594134<https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/requests/594134> in the subject line. Justin (CloudFlare) Oct 4, 1:17 AM Thank you for your report. To expedite processing of your abuse report, please submit your abuse report through CloudFlare's abuse reporting web form at: https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/ Please be aware CloudFlare offers network service solutions, including a reverse proxy, pass-through security service and a content distribution network (CDN). Because CloudFlare is a reverse proxy, our IP addresses appear in whois and DNS records for websites using our services. CloudFlare is not a hosting provider, and we do not have access to our customer's content. Regards, CloudFlare Trust and Safety This email is a service from CloudFlare. Message-Id:N2X4QD46E1_56107008d4976_ae873f877f2cd328175239_sprut