Update on the EU Clean-IT project
Hi, The EU Clean-IT project did a presentation on RIPE64. EDRI (European Digital Rights) was informed via a leaked document on the projects wishlist and planned (internal) discussion topics and current recommendations. They posted a summary on their website: http://www.edri.org/cleanIT The document itself can be found here: http://www.edri.org/files/cleanIT_sept2012.pdf If this is where the EU regulation is moving towards, under the umbrella of terrorism .... Oh boy ... Regards, Erik Bais
Some of this EDRI commentary is pure hype I don't suppose the EDRI is acquainted with hentai porn?
This already widespread approach results, for example, in Microsoft (as a wholly typical example of current industry practice) having terms of service that would ban pictures of the always trouserless Donald Duck as potential pornography (“depicts nudity of any sort ... in non-human forms such as cartoons”).
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Erik Bais <erik@bais.name> wrote:
Hi,
The EU Clean-IT project did a presentation on RIPE64.
EDRI (European Digital Rights) was informed via a leaked document on the projects wishlist and planned (internal) discussion topics and current recommendations.
They posted a summary on their website: http://www.edri.org/cleanIT
The document itself can be found here: http://www.edri.org/files/cleanIT_sept2012.pdf
If this is where the EU regulation is moving towards, under the umbrella of terrorism …. Oh boy ...
Regards,
Erik Bais
-- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists@gmail.com)
Erik, Erik Bais wrote the following on 21/09/2012 12:17:
Hi,
The EU Clean-IT project did a presentation on RIPE64.
While I'm not going to comment on the EDRI document as I haven't read it yet (and may still not after I do :) ), But Klassen will be speaking to the WG on Thursday next week at RIPE 65, so if there are relevant and genuine questions, that is the point to ask them. The session will, of course, be streamed live and coordinates for that will be posted. Brian.
Thnx for that Brian. I'll save my questions on this topics for next Thursday. Erik
Erik, Erik Bais wrote the following on 21/09/2012 13:55:
Thnx for that Brian.
I'll save my questions on this topics for next Thursday.
Thanks. Also, the Clean IT project has just posted this reaction: http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-it-discussion-document/ Brian.
Brian Nisbet wrote, On 09/21/2012 05:02 PM:
Erik, Erik Bais wrote the following on 21/09/2012 13:55:
Thnx for that Brian.
I'll save my questions on this topics for next Thursday.
Thanks. Also, the Clean IT project has just posted this reaction:
http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-it-discussion-document/
The "press release" begins with this sentence: "However EDRI suggests otherwise, a posted document on their website does not provide concrete proposal to tackle terrorism on the internet." Do I need to brush up my english, or what is it saying exactly? :-) I don't think, and hope that such an anti-Islam-only paper (and anti-Islam organisation and web site they have set up under the RIPE umbrella with EU tax money), can or should ever get any ratification from the netizens. It even looks like a paper coming directly from Israel's foreign secret service Mossad...
How or why do you say they are anti Islamic? --srs (htc one x) On Sep 21, 2012 10:52 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
Brian Nisbet wrote, On 09/21/2012 05:02 PM:
Erik, Erik Bais wrote the following on 21/09/2012 13:55:
Thnx for that Brian.
I'll save my questions on this topics for next Thursday.
Thanks. Also, the Clean IT project has just posted this reaction:
http://www.cleanitproject.eu/**edri-publishes-clean-it-** discussion-document/<http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-it-discussion-document/>
The "press release" begins with this sentence: "However EDRI suggests otherwise, a posted document on their website does not provide concrete proposal to tackle terrorism on the internet."
Do I need to brush up my english, or what is it saying exactly? :-)
I don't think, and hope that such an anti-Islam-only paper (and anti-Islam organisation and web site they have set up under the RIPE umbrella with EU tax money), can or should ever get any ratification from the netizens. It even looks like a paper coming directly from Israel's foreign secret service Mossad...
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote, On 09/22/2012 02:02 AM:
How or why do you say they are anti Islamic?
Just look at this list on their web page http://www.cleanitproject.eu/documents/ : " Please find below a list of public papers, reports and articles about the terrorist use of the Internet: 2004 E-Terror 2006 Hezbollah use of the Internet 2006 Terrorism and Internet 2006 Jihadis and Internet 2007 Jihadism online 2008 Terrorist use of the Internet 2008 Virtual Caliphate 2009 Internet radicalisation South East Asia 2009 Online Radicalisation 2009 Recruitment and Radicalisation 2009 Terrorism and the Internet 2009 Jihadis and the Internet update 2009 How Jihadis adapt to the web 2009 Terrorist financing on the Internet 2009 Online propaganda by Jihadis (in Spanish) 2010 Global Extremist Organisations 2010 Radical websites in Indonesia 2010 Virtual Jihad (in German) 2011 Use of the Internet for Counter Terrorist purposes 2011 Role of Internet for terrorists (in Spanish) 2012 Jihadism on the Web 2012 Terrorists Using Social Online Networking " Do you see in the list any document against nazi websites, or of jewish fanatics, or of christian fundamentalists?... Very suspicious...
--srs (htc one x) On Sep 21, 2012 10:52 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
Brian Nisbet wrote, On 09/21/2012 05:02 PM:
Erik, Erik Bais wrote the following on 21/09/2012 13:55:
Thnx for that Brian.
I'll save my questions on this topics for next Thursday.
Thanks. Also, the Clean IT project has just posted this reaction:
http://www.cleanitproject.eu/**edri-publishes-clean-it-** discussion-document/<http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-it-discussion-document/>
The "press release" begins with this sentence: "However EDRI suggests otherwise, a posted document on their website does not provide concrete proposal to tackle terrorism on the internet."
Do I need to brush up my english, or what is it saying exactly? :-)
I don't think, and hope that such an anti-Islam-only paper (and anti-Islam organisation and web site they have set up under the RIPE umbrella with EU tax money), can or should ever get any ratification from the netizens. It even looks like a paper coming directly from Israel's foreign secret service Mossad...
Could we add the following corporate terrorism (using threats to achieve what you do not wish to achieve through democratic means): - using libel as a way to shut down consumer's voice (mc libel/Danone/Monstanto); - EDF spying on greenpeace; - the corporate companies (MS, amnesys) helping lybia/tunisia dictatorship spy on their people; - the more than probable help of companies in cyber warfare (dassault desactivating iraqui's IFF on mirage, flame malware?); - the clearly wtf TOS for social services specifying legal content as not being sharable (nude is wrong (but legal), nazis stuff are right (but sometimes illegal)); Terror is all about short circuiting democratic means to achieve your goals by the means of fear. Libelling and copyright laws are being used as a clear threat to freedom of speech, thus as democracy by the mean of terrorizing people willing to launch debates. How can I trust someone using terror on the internet to fight the terror? I am not willing to fight any terrorists by supporting other terrorists. No Terrorism is acceptable. Even terrorism made by people in nice suits and driving fast sport cars. 2012/9/22 U.Mutlu <security@mutluit.com>:
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote, On 09/22/2012 02:02 AM:
How or why do you say they are anti Islamic?
Just look at this list on their web page http://www.cleanitproject.eu/documents/ :
" Please find below a list of public papers, reports and articles about the terrorist use of the Internet: 2004 E-Terror 2006 Hezbollah use of the Internet 2006 Terrorism and Internet 2006 Jihadis and Internet 2007 Jihadism online 2008 Terrorist use of the Internet 2008 Virtual Caliphate 2009 Internet radicalisation South East Asia 2009 Online Radicalisation 2009 Recruitment and Radicalisation 2009 Terrorism and the Internet 2009 Jihadis and the Internet update 2009 How Jihadis adapt to the web 2009 Terrorist financing on the Internet 2009 Online propaganda by Jihadis (in Spanish) 2010 Global Extremist Organisations 2010 Radical websites in Indonesia 2010 Virtual Jihad (in German) 2011 Use of the Internet for Counter Terrorist purposes 2011 Role of Internet for terrorists (in Spanish) 2012 Jihadism on the Web 2012 Terrorists Using Social Online Networking "
Do you see in the list any document against nazi websites, or of jewish fanatics, or of christian fundamentalists?... Very suspicious...
--srs (htc one x) On Sep 21, 2012 10:52 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
Brian Nisbet wrote, On 09/21/2012 05:02 PM:
Erik, Erik Bais wrote the following on 21/09/2012 13:55:
Thnx for that Brian.
I'll save my questions on this topics for next Thursday.
Thanks. Also, the Clean IT project has just posted this reaction:
http://www.cleanitproject.eu/**edri-publishes-clean-it-**
discussion-document/<http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-it-discussion-document/>
The "press release" begins with this sentence: "However EDRI suggests otherwise, a posted document on their website does not provide concrete proposal to tackle terrorism on the internet."
Do I need to brush up my english, or what is it saying exactly? :-)
I don't think, and hope that such an anti-Islam-only paper (and anti-Islam organisation and web site they have set up under the RIPE umbrella with EU tax money), can or should ever get any ratification from the netizens. It even looks like a paper coming directly from Israel's foreign secret service Mossad...
Julien, you seem to have misinterpreted what I said. It can not be the job of RIPE to make Anti-Terror-Laws. Such laws already exist. The proposed paper looks like to aim only the radical islamists whereas there are more dangerous idiots out there, like the nazis, christian fundamentalists, jewish fanatics etc. They all should have been addressed, and not only the radical islamists. We don't want have a totalitarian Internet, a Big Brother RIPE. RIPE should be responsible for the technical and administrative issues of the Internet, not political or religious issues. Here's a good analysis about terrorists and the terrorist makers: http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/20/262683/israel-seeks-iran-war-to-keep-li... julien tayon wrote, On 09/22/2012 04:52 PM:
Could we add the following corporate terrorism (using threats to achieve what you do not wish to achieve through democratic means):
- using libel as a way to shut down consumer's voice (mc libel/Danone/Monstanto); - EDF spying on greenpeace; - the corporate companies (MS, amnesys) helping lybia/tunisia dictatorship spy on their people; - the more than probable help of companies in cyber warfare (dassault desactivating iraqui's IFF on mirage, flame malware?); - the clearly wtf TOS for social services specifying legal content as not being sharable (nude is wrong (but legal), nazis stuff are right (but sometimes illegal));
Terror is all about short circuiting democratic means to achieve your goals by the means of fear. Libelling and copyright laws are being used as a clear threat to freedom of speech, thus as democracy by the mean of terrorizing people willing to launch debates.
How can I trust someone using terror on the internet to fight the terror?
I am not willing to fight any terrorists by supporting other terrorists. No Terrorism is acceptable. Even terrorism made by people in nice suits and driving fast sport cars.
2012/9/22 U.Mutlu <security@mutluit.com>:
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote, On 09/22/2012 02:02 AM:
How or why do you say they are anti Islamic?
Just look at this list on their web page http://www.cleanitproject.eu/documents/ :
" Please find below a list of public papers, reports and articles about the terrorist use of the Internet: 2004 E-Terror 2006 Hezbollah use of the Internet 2006 Terrorism and Internet 2006 Jihadis and Internet 2007 Jihadism online 2008 Terrorist use of the Internet 2008 Virtual Caliphate 2009 Internet radicalisation South East Asia 2009 Online Radicalisation 2009 Recruitment and Radicalisation 2009 Terrorism and the Internet 2009 Jihadis and the Internet update 2009 How Jihadis adapt to the web 2009 Terrorist financing on the Internet 2009 Online propaganda by Jihadis (in Spanish) 2010 Global Extremist Organisations 2010 Radical websites in Indonesia 2010 Virtual Jihad (in German) 2011 Use of the Internet for Counter Terrorist purposes 2011 Role of Internet for terrorists (in Spanish) 2012 Jihadism on the Web 2012 Terrorists Using Social Online Networking "
Do you see in the list any document against nazi websites, or of jewish fanatics, or of christian fundamentalists?... Very suspicious...
--srs (htc one x) On Sep 21, 2012 10:52 PM, "U.Mutlu" <security@mutluit.com> wrote:
Brian Nisbet wrote, On 09/21/2012 05:02 PM:
Erik, Erik Bais wrote the following on 21/09/2012 13:55:
Thnx for that Brian.
I'll save my questions on this topics for next Thursday.
Thanks. Also, the Clean IT project has just posted this reaction:
http://www.cleanitproject.eu/**edri-publishes-clean-it-**
discussion-document/<http://www.cleanitproject.eu/edri-publishes-clean-it-discussion-document/>
The "press release" begins with this sentence: "However EDRI suggests otherwise, a posted document on their website does not provide concrete proposal to tackle terrorism on the internet."
Do I need to brush up my english, or what is it saying exactly? :-)
I don't think, and hope that such an anti-Islam-only paper (and anti-Islam organisation and web site they have set up under the RIPE umbrella with EU tax money), can or should ever get any ratification from the netizens. It even looks like a paper coming directly from Israel's foreign secret service Mossad...
-----Original Message----- From: anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:anti-abuse-wg- bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of U.Mutlu Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:23 PM To: julien tayon Cc: Suresh Ramasubramanian; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
The proposed paper looks like to aim only the radical islamists whereas there are more dangerous idiots out there, like the nazis, christian fundamentalists, jewish fanatics etc.
I believe discussion of the extent to which any given religious or political group might include e.g. 'idiots' or 'fanatics' is off topic for this working group. -- Thor Kottelin http://www.anta.net/
U.Mutlu wrote, On 22/09/2012 18:23:
Julien, you seem to have misinterpreted what I said. It can not be the job of RIPE to make Anti-Terror-Laws.
I'd like to be very clear that the CleanIT project is not part of RIPE. Due to the work they are doing and the area in which they are operating we thought (and continue to think) that they have some interesting things to say and that it is a good thing that they are bringing their ideas to the community. By inviting the project to speak at the meeting, neither the AA-WG nor the community (and especially not the NCC) explicitly or implicitly endorses the full project. We have said that we feel this is an area that requires more investigation and work, but that doesn't mean that we agree with everything they say. Needless to say, this goes not just for the CleanIT project but anyone who comes to talk to the community. Indeed, if you look at the projects page on partners and participants (http://www.cleanitproject.eu/partners-and-participants/) it explicitly states "These persons or organisations attended Clean IT events and/or exchanged views to contribute to the project. This does not implicate any commitment to temporary or future results from the individuals or their organization." I hope this clears things up to some extent. Brian. Co-chair, RIPE AA-WG
participants (6)
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Brian Nisbet -
Erik Bais -
julien tayon -
Suresh Ramasubramanian -
Thor Kottelin -
U.Mutlu