On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 2:46 PM Carsten Schiefner <ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de> wrote:

Hi Cynthia,

I share Volker's PoV to some larger extend: yes, Tobias' email might be
a bit edgy wrt. marketing - but one could also read his first mentioning
of him being Co-Chair as just proper introduction. And the second one as
a reasoning why his email just went to you instead of the AA WG list as
a whole.

Also, it would be interesting - at least for me - which of your postings
triggered Tobias' private response. I am unsure which one of your's at:

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/2021-February/date.html

to pick...

ATB,

-C.

On 22.02.2021 18:23, Cynthia Revström via ripe-list wrote:
> It is possible but I highly doubt it.
>
>> We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any
> size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
>
> That sounds so much like marketing and irrelevant if it wasn't.
> Also if it wasn't marketing, why would he ask for me to schedule a video
> call?
>
> Once again I could be wrong, and if I am, I am sorry, but I can't see
> how this isn't marketing.
>
> -Cynthia
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:18 PM Volker Greimann
> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
> I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal
> to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as
> a sales pitch.
>
> Best,
> --
> Volker A. Greimann
> General Counsel and Policy Manager
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> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg
> <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> (intro)
> Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to)
> abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me
> services based on what I said on a mailing list.
>
> (mainly towards Tobias)
> Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to
> sell me services is bad enough.
> To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are
> co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
>
> I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a
> working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in
> the thread at all.
>
> also this:
> > As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the
> mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
>
> I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking
> but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell
> something, because it is bad.
>
> (mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs)
> A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or
> removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
>
> I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be
> wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
>
> I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell
> me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of
> replying saying I am not interested).
> But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs
> of the db-wg.
>
> Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially
> thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in
> his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
>
> I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too
> appalling to be held private.
>
> -Cynthia
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com
> <mailto:tk@abusix.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello Cynthia,
>
> my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working
> Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
>
>
> As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the
> mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
>
> We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers
> of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to
> DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
>
> Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have
> and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
>
> Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my
> calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
> <https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min>
>
> Thanks and stay safe.
>
> Tobias
>
> --
>
>
> Tobias Knecht
>
>
>
> Founder & CEO
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>
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>
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>
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