Why SPAM exists...
Because ISP exists.
Because in 2004 Trump was not President...
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Today's Topics:
1. Why SPAM exists in
2017 (ox)
2. Re: Why SPAM exists in 2017 (peter
h)
3. Re: Why SPAM exists in 2017 (Richard
Clayton)
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Message:
1
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:11:40 +0200
From: ox
<andre@ox.co.za>
To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
Subject: [anti-abuse-wg]
Why SPAM exists in 2017
Message-ID:
<mailman.2.1486810802.25905.anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hello Everyone,
Famously, during
2004, Bill Gates promised the world that Spam would no
longer exist by
2006.
More than a decade later, spam even penetrates the very best
"insert whatever
name here" technology.
It is 2017 and apparently
society does not understand why spam still exists.
Of course, all of us
know why there is still spam.
//donning flame retardant suit (and tinfoil
hat for good measure... )
For those that lurk to learn, or, for anyone
with no pov on why there is still
spam:
********************************
Spam exists because society
does not agree on a single protocol to stop spam.
(We do not all even agree
on the definition of what spam is.)
In society, some filter emails by DNS,
some by IP number (worrying about
dropping emails from co-located domains
that have not updated their
wordpress and are pumping out 1 legit email for
every 1000 spam, etc
etc - we should also discuss this
sometime?)
********************************
The concern for "false
positives" outrank that of sender reputation and is out of whack.
(and we,
society, do not want to change this)
let us take a closer look at a
practical (and factual) example of this imbalance:
Fact: Both Google.com
and Yahoo.com send out spam (unsolicited bulk
email - where bulk is defined
as more than one or two of the same email and
unsolicited - as simply not
requested or expected)
Fact: We all receive many times more spam from
yahoo.com as we do from google.com
even though google.com transmits many
times more ham than yahoo.com
(Another simple truth: We all receive much more
criminal activity from yahoo.com
than from google.com)
If you wish to
dispute these simple and factual numbers you can look at
the IP ranges in
public data related to abuse, as the statistics report exactly
the same
facts that I am claiming (and experiencing))
Yet, we will be hard pressed
to 'drop" incoming from yahoo.com simply
based on sender score, we also do
not use other RBL, that lists Google.com
IP numbers, for drop. (as our users
would have hissy fits if they did not get email
from example@yahoo or
example@gmail - in fact - they may simply move
their email hosting to
google... - because google/yahoo cannot be
wrong, it has to be
@example_of_small_isp...
Our user(s) want to receive email from grandma,
even though grandma has
just dumped 10000 unsolicited emails asking for
donations to send her
old age club to the beach for "insert name of special
and/or religious holiday here"
Your
thoughts?
Andre
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date:
Sat, 11 Feb 2017 09:40:44 +0100
From: peter h
<peter@hk.ipsec.se>
To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re:
[anti-abuse-wg] Why SPAM exists in 2017
Message-ID:
<201702110940.44617.peter@hk.ipsec.se>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
On Saturday 11 February 2017 09.11, ox
wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Famously, during 2004, Bill
Gates promised the world that Spam would no
> longer exist by
2006.
>
<snip>
> Your thoughts?
>
>
Andre
Spam exists as ISP across the world, with some excemptions,
don't do even the most basic
procedures to detect and stop spam from their
networks. Shame on them ( but it is cheap )
--
Peter H?kanson
There's never money to do it
right, but always money to do it
again ... and again ... and again ... and
again.
( Det ?r billigare att g?ra
r?tt. Det ?r dyrt att laga fel.
)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat,
11 Feb 2017 10:31:32 +0000
From: Richard Clayton
<richard@highwayman.com>
To: ox <andre@ox.co.za>
Cc:
anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Why SPAM exists in
2017
Message-ID: <TJ9nk8EEgunYFAxS@highwayman.com>
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In message , ox
<andre@ox.co.za> writes
>Famously, during 2004, Bill Gates
promised the world that Spam would no
>longer exist by 2006.
he
believed that the "Penny Black" scheme would work... he was wrong,
the bad
guys have more resources to hand than the good guys and so a
system based on
proof-of-work could not be effective
some of us explained this at the
time ...
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/proofwork2.pdf
- --
richard
Richard Clayton
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety. Benjamin
Franklin
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End of anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 63, Issue
12
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