Hi Gert, I think that provides a very good way to actually define it, and also coincides with my view point that it may be abuse for you and not for me, or the other way around. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 23/2/22 19:39, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Gert Doering" <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de gert@space.net> escribió: Hi, On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 07:20:48PM +0100, Tobias Knecht via anti-abuse-wg wrote: > I disagree with the idea of defining what abuse is for 3 reasons. I do understand your arguments, but I'm not agreeing with the conclusion. If we can't agree on "this is abuse" and "that is not", how can we ever agree on "we should do something against abuse!"? More extreme wording: why would I, as an ISP, need an abuse handling department if I can just declare "ah, no, this is all normal customer activity" instead? So, yes, defining abuse is very hard - but if we ever want to reach a good level of common abuse squashing, we should find a common understanding. Like "using other people's resources (bandwidth, money, time) without at least implicit permission, for personal gain". (I, for one, consider half the web sites out there abusive, with cookie banners, insanely big graphics, and weird scrolling stuff - but I guess most web developers would not agree to that) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.