In message <f1d02b78-49fa-0b62-d84c-578b30d1c4b7@foobar.org>, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
There are several aspects of this proposal that are pretty disturbing, but the two that jump out are 1. over-reach by the RIPE Community, 2. encroachment into the arena of supranational law enforcement.
I seriously don't know how one could make such a large leap in logic. "Law enforcement" has the power to put handcuffs on people, to deny them liberty for extended periods of time, and in the case of both individuals and companies, to substantially penalize them monitarily. The proposal at hand neither suggests nor contemplates any such actions or remedies, nor even anything that could be construed as such, even in the most wild-eyed interpretation. 2019-03 is not an exercise in law enforcement, either supranational or otherwise. It is, rather, a simple refinement and extension of current and existing private contractual relationships, where the harshest possible outcome would be for the parties to agree to disagree about what each owes to the other, under the terms of the written contract(s), and then perhaps to go their separate ways, having terminated their private contractual relationship. If you trash a rental car, and return it trashed, and if the company that rented the car to you thus makes the reasonable and utterly defensible decision not to rent cars to you in the future, is that an exercise in "law enforcement"? I think not.
Regarding over-reach, the RIPE NCC was instituted as a numbering registry and as a supporting organisation for the RIPE Community, whose terms of reference are described in the RIPE-1 document. The terms of reference make it clear that the purpose of the RIPE Community and the RIPE NCC is internet co-ordination and - pointedly - not enforcement.
I say again what I have previously said, which this that 2019-03, even if accepted and ratified by the community, would not give RIPE any more power to "enforce" its will over anyone's -routers- than RIPE would have had the day before such ratification. I therefore find this use of the term "enforcement" in this context somewhat foreign and strange. Given its mandate to facilitate and foster "coordination" in the use of RIPE-assigned number resources, are you ernestly suggesting that RIPE is constitutionally prohibited from even holding sway over its own WHOIS data base and the entries therein, in accordance with the clear guidance and wishes of the community? Does RIPE not already "enforce" the removal of some such WHOIS entries in response to the non-payment of dues? If it does, then please point me at the specific provision or provisions of RIPE's charter that explicitly prohibit it from doing likewise in other circumstances that also, arguably, represent a clear and present threat to RIPE's ability to carry out its assigned "coordination" duties... duties which, we both agree, it has been tasked to persue and foster. I, for one, find it both endlessly humorous and also endlessly sad that RIPE has been given the -responsibility- for coordinating the use of resources, even as it has been consistantly denied any and every tool that it might employ to assert its -authority- to do so. 2019-03 represents at least a small step towards righting that colossal and damaging imbalance between RIPE's responsibility and its near utter lack of actual authority. (And I can only hope that at least a few of the people reading these words will have, at some point in their professional lives, likewise been stuck in a position where they were given a mountain of responsibily and a pee-shooter's worth of actual authority. Those folks, at least, will have a clear understanding of why this never works out very well.)
Proposal 2019-03 goes well outside the scope of what the RIPE Community and the RIPE NCC were constituted to do, and I do not believe that the Anti Abuse working group has the authority to override this.
RIPE was chartered to "keep the books" as it were... to maintain the giant ledger of who has been assigned what. Why? What was the purpose... what *is* the purpose of maintaining one big colossal ledger of who has been assigned what if everyone just thumbs their noses at it, and if they all then go around, willy-nilly, ignoring the assigments that have been so carefully recorded in that giant community ledger? If the ledger itself is to have any meaning, then it must be adhered to. If it is not adhered to, then let's just terminate it, once and for all, and be done this whole charade that is called RIPE. Let's go back to the Internet stone age, to a time even before Jon Postel, and let's just have an every-man-for-himself free-for-all. It would be a lot cheaper. Everybody could stop paying RIPE membership dues and RIPE fees. But I don't think that's what anybody really wants. I cannot and will not argue whether this working group or that working group, specifically, has the right or authority to choose whether RIPE should be allowed to use the tools it has to do the job it has been assigned. That is for others to pass judgement on, not me. I will only say that this authority, the authority to notice and take action when parties flaunt the entire assignment system, should be granted, and that doing so would not be in any way inconsistant with any RIPE mandate or with what RIPE was chartered to do from day one. Quite the opposite. It would be supoportive of RIPE's fundamental mission. RIPE keeps a set of public books, and the very existance of those public ledger books, it is hoped, will ensure peace, stability, order, and at least some measure of mutual security. The overriding goal is *not* the books themselves, or their continued slavish maintenance, for their own sakes, into the comming centuries. These are not sacred texts being copied and recopied by a cadre of devoted monks, for posterity, in some candle-lit monastic sanctum. These are the land deeds of the Internet. And they have long since been accepted as such by virtually everyone. What we have seen, time and again now, and what cannot now be reasonably denied, is that every so often, one of the lanholders who is a registrant in, and himself a direct beneficiary of this established system of public order and security, has gathered unto himself a modest force of servants, slaves, waifs, concubines, and mercenaries, and has then ridden out to some nearby defenseless village, and has then laid siege to and ultimately laid claim to lands that are not his. So the question arises -- What shall we do with such scoundrels? Shall we welcome them to our tables, break bread with them, share our wine, laugh at their jokes, slap them on the back and congratulate them for their pluck, wit, courage and boldness? Or should we instead cast them out from among the company of civilized men and from the system of order that they themselves, and by their own hands, have so explicitly violated and to which they themselves would no doubt appeal when and if some even bolder robber barron were to come down upon them and their own holdings? I can only answer for myself, but to me the choice is clear. Those who have, with malice aforethought, violated the system of rules that we, as a community, have accepted should not subsequently be permitted to call upon that same set of rules, or the community's ledgers, in defense of their own interests. To allow this would be unarguably both unjust and self-defeating of the social contract to which each and all of us have already suordinated ourselves and our individual private interests. RIPE does not have and should not have the power to put anyone in irons. But it damn well isn't obliged, I think, to act as either a reference for or a guarantor of the legitimacy of the holdings of any party that, by its own acts, has declined to likewise and in turn endorse RIPE and its ledger and its assignments. Regards, rfg