Malcolm (and, indeed, Sascha), I did not intent to be flippant in my answer. I apologise that it came across in that way. It was meant as a genuine attempt to gain better understanding of the basis for the objection, not an attempt to dismiss or mischaracterise, although I can understand that it came across in that way. I believe the points that Marco and I have made still stand in regards to the possible outcome of not adhering to this policy and whether that is a change or a valid reason for objection. Thank, Brian Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG Brian Nisbet Network Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
-----Original Message----- From: Malcolm Hutty <malcolm@linx.net> Sent: Friday 16 March 2018 09:28 To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie>; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Decision on Proposal 2017-02
On 16/03/2018 08:59, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Nothing, and I didn't state that it was. The problem is that, once accepted, the implementation is out of the hands of this community or indeed everyone bar the NCC Board. They can make it as onerous and oppressive as they want. Ah, ok, my apologies. So, because I'd like to be clear here, you are objecting to this proposal on the basis of something that may or may not happen in the future?
Brian,
As a matter of principle I must object to that as a completely unfair mischaracterisation of what Sascha just said.
To object to a proposal "on the basis of something that may or may not happen in the future" makes it sound speculative, and thus unreasonable.
To object to a proposal on the basis that it *authorises* something undesirable to happen is perfectly reasonable; such an objection is on the basis that the measure before us would transfer the decision as to whether that thing should happen from us to (in this case) the NCC. That's something that is happening now, not something in the future.
You may disagree with Sascha as to whether 2017-02 does in fact authorise the NCC to do something undesirable, but it's not fair to rule out his concerns merely because the supposedly undesirable outcome is only authorised rather than required.
I think it really important that we recognise that when authorising the NCC to act, it is a legitimate objection to say that we wouldn't want them to exercise that authority in a particular way, and the scope of what is authorised ought to be limited in some way. I am far more concerned about that as a principle than I am about the outcome for this proposal in particular.
Kind Regards,
Malcolm.
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