Hi,
I am not sure this mailing list is still active, the latest archived mail dates back from over a year ago.
I have 3 questions for this mailing list:
1) Does RIPE or other registrars impose antispam fighting measures or a code of conduct to the ISPs or telcos it allocates IP ranges to?
For instance, do these registrar customers specifically sign an agreement never to post spam themselves. Do they also sign an agreement to terminate IP sub-allocation or contract with their own customers who are using their IP addresses to post spam?
2) If there is such measures, how does RIPE enforce them?
3) What does RIPE intends to do about Ukrtelecom, who is alone responsible for hundreds of thousands of daily spam posts in discussion forums and BBSs?
According to the people in stopforumspam.com, every single post emanating from ukrtelecom is spam, there is not a single genuine user from that telco.
How can RIPE allocate hundreds of separate IP ranges to this single telco, especially if it is only a support for spam, not a telco at all.
When querying the RIPE database for ukrtelecom, it returns 300 IP ranges, but that's only because the web site is limited to 300 answers.
I'd like to see the whole list in order to ban it all from my forum, even if it means banning genuine users from Ukraine.
And of course, when I say ukrtelecom is a spammer site, I really means it is a mafia site that makes millions of dollars every month in illegal activities, selling dangerous fake medicines such as viagra or tamiflu.
In these times of IP addresses shortening, it would make a lot more IPs available if the registrars would cancel IP allocation from the customers who break the antispam rules.
Thanks,
Chimel.
By the way, a BBS seems to be a more adequate way than a mailing list to handle this kind of discussion. Just my 2 cents.
_________________________________________________________________
A la recherche de bons plans pour une rentrée pas chère ? Bing ! Trouvez !
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bons+plans+rentr%C3%A9e&form=MVDE6
Begin forwarded message:
> From: peter håkanson <peter(a)hk.ipsec.se>
> Date: October 21, 2009 11:33:51 AM GMT+02:00
> To: Florian Weimer <fweimer(a)bfk.de>
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Antispam measures
> content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> mime-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1076)
> x-universally-unique-identifier: fcad27c0-c289-49cd-80b3-1b91332e229d
> in-reply-to: <82vdi9uo14.fsf(a)mid.bfk.de>
> content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
> x-smtp-server: bore.hk.ipsec.se
> message-id: <5036E015-CC9D-4D2E-AD84-FB340601B07F(a)hk.ipsec.se>
> references: <COL117-W30F981CC6FF1583F0A2A20D2C00(a)phx.gbl> <82vdi9uo14.fsf(a)mid.bfk.de
> >
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Florian Weimer wrote:
>
>> * Chimel Chimel:
>>
>>> 1) Does RIPE or other registrars impose antispam fighting measures
>>> or a code of conduct to the ISPs or telcos it allocates IP ranges
>>> to?
>>
>> No, not that I know.
>>
>>> For instance, do these registrar customers specifically sign an
>>> agreement never to post spam themselves. Do they also sign an
>>> agreement to terminate IP sub-allocation or contract with their own
>>> customers who are using their IP addresses to post spam?
>>
>> No, surely not. That would be poor service. You don't want to lose
>> your IP resources just because your infrastructure has been
>> compromised. 8-(
>
> On the contrary, a real risk of loosing their allocation might be
> a good motivation to run their shop accordingly. As of today some
> providers don't care ( and will benefit from spammers).
>
> Just like alkohol-serving firms ( bars etc) if they don't run ther bar
> according to local rules they will loose the permits.
> We don't allow sleazy hospitals either. Why should we permit
> sleazy ISP's to poison our vital infrastructure ??
>
>>
>>> 2) If there is such measures, how does RIPE enforce them?
>>
>> There is no enforcement.
>>
>>> 3) What does RIPE intends to do about Ukrtelecom, who is alone
>>> responsible for hundreds of thousands of daily spam posts in
>>> discussion forums and BBSs?
>>
>> Well ...
>>
>>> According to the people in stopforumspam.com, every single post
>>> emanating from ukrtelecom is spam, there is not a single genuine
>>> user from that telco.
>>
>> ... so you should be lucky that it's so easy to filter that type of
>> spam. If you shut down netblocks, the badness just spreads far and
>> wide and gets more difficult to track.
>>
>> Of course, if the activity is indeed illegal, it should be stopped.
>> One problem we face is that a lot of questionable practices (DNS
>> poisoning, injecting pop-ups with ads, installing software on PCs
>> without informed consent) are also carried out by obviously
>> legitimate
>> businesses, so it's often difficult to convince a prosecutor that
>> it's
>> illegal.
>>
>> On top of that, many legal scholars claim that in the EU, once you
>> say
>> the magic word, "telco", you are no longer responsible for the
>> traffic
>> you handle, much like anyone could seek asylum in Germany (until we
>> got rid of this constitutional guarantee in the 90s, which was rather
>> disappointing because nothing expresses your national wealth better
>> than an almost unconditional willingness to share it). This blanket
>> liability exemption is the root of the problem, and it is pretty much
>> unique to the telco sector, at least in its generality. It has to
>> go.
>
> We don't have to resort to legal discussions here , if RIPE supplies
> goods
> under some conditions, any breakage of that condition is enought
> to terminate the contract. It's a deal between business partners.
>>
>>> I'd like to see the whole list in order to ban it all from my forum,
>>> even if it means banning genuine users from Ukraine.
>>
>> The relevant parts of the RIPE database is available from
>> ftp.ripe.net. In the past, I've generated anti-abuse ACLs from mnt-
>> by
>> handles, which was surprisingly effective. Using BGP might help as
>> well.
>>
>> --
>> Florian Weimer <fweimer(a)bfk.de>
>> BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/
>> Kriegsstraße 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1
>> D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ======================================================
> Peter Håkanson Phone +46707328101 Fax +4631223190
> IPSec sverige Email peter(a)ipsec.se
> "Safe by design" Address Bror Nilssons gata 16
> Lundbystrand
> S-417 55 Gothenburg Sweden
>
>
>
======================================================
Peter Håkanson Phone +46707328101 Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige Email peter(a)ipsec.se
"Safe by design" Address Bror Nilssons gata 16
Lundbystrand
S-417 55 Gothenburg Sweden
Begin forwarded message:
> From: peter håkanson <peter(a)hk.ipsec.se>
> Date: October 21, 2009 10:22:13 AM GMT+02:00
> To: Chimel Chimel <chimel31(a)live.fr>
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Antispam measures
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Chimel Chimel wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am not sure this mailing list is still active, the latest
>> archived mail dates back from over a year ago.
>
> yes, the list is sprodically active, however the working group has
> given up
> with spam and calls itself 'anti-abuse' these days.
>
>> I have 3 questions for this mailing list:
>>
>> 1) Does RIPE or other registrars impose antispam fighting measures
>> or a code of conduct to the ISPs or telcos it allocates IP ranges to?
>> For instance, do these registrar customers specifically sign an
>> agreement never to post spam themselves. Do they also sign an
>> agreement to terminate IP sub-allocation or contract with their own
>> customers who are using their IP addresses to post spam?
>>
>> 2) If there is such measures, how does RIPE enforce them?
>>
>> 3) What does RIPE intends to do about Ukrtelecom, who is alone
>> responsible for hundreds of thousands of daily spam posts in
>> discussion forums and BBSs?
>> According to the people in stopforumspam.com, every single post
>> emanating from ukrtelecom is spam, there is not a single genuine
>> user from that telco.
>> How can RIPE allocate hundreds of separate IP ranges to this single
>> telco, especially if it is only a support for spam, not a telco at
>> all.
>> When querying the RIPE database for ukrtelecom, it returns 300 IP
>> ranges, but that's only because the web site is limited to 300
>> answers.
>> I'd like to see the whole list in order to ban it all from my
>> forum, even if it means banning genuine users from Ukraine.
>> And of course, when I say ukrtelecom is a spammer site, I really
>> means it is a mafia site that makes millions of dollars every month
>> in illegal activities, selling dangerous fake medicines such as
>> viagra or tamiflu.
>> In these times of IP addresses shortening, it would make a lot more
>> IPs available if the registrars would cancel IP allocation from the
>> customers who break the antispam rules.
>
> Amen !
>
> In the meantime, block the offending ranges. This will make the ip's
> isolated. A number
> of blocklists is available that keeps current records of offending
> ranges.
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chimel.
>>
>> By the way, a BBS seems to be a more adequate way than a mailing
>> list to handle this kind of discussion. Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> Gratuit : Hotmail plus rapide avec Internet Explorer 8 ! Cliquez
>> ici !
>
>
> ======================================================
> Peter Håkanson Phone +46707328101 Fax +4631223190
> IPSec sverige Email peter(a)ipsec.se
> "Safe by design" Address Bror Nilssons gata 16
> Lundbystrand
> S-417 55 Gothenburg Sweden
>
>
>
======================================================
Peter Håkanson Phone +46707328101 Fax +4631223190
IPSec sverige Email peter(a)ipsec.se
"Safe by design" Address Bror Nilssons gata 16
Lundbystrand
S-417 55 Gothenburg Sweden
