2023-04 Discussion scope
Dear Working Group, During the discussion about AGGREGATED-BY-LIR status for IPv4 PA assignments the argument has been raised that this proposal would substantially change the registration requirements for end-user assignments in the RIPE DB and the discussion has been going around in circles ever since. We would like to point out the following: From the RIPE NCC Impact Analysis: [...] Acceptance of this proposal will not change the fact that the RIPE NCC cannot enforce which contact details members add to their IPv4 PA assignments in the RIPE Database; this will remain their decision. [...] As well as: It is fact that the RIPE NCC has interpreted the current policy to not require a PA Assignment in the RIPE DB to include the actual name and email address of the end-user since at leas the late 1990s. Registering a PA Assignment with something like "CUSTOMER-1234" and an email address pointing to the LIR has been acceptable for all this time. In its impact analysis the RIPE NCC has indicated that this proposal does not change this interpretation. It should therefore be clear that 2023-04 does not in fact change anything regarding how end-user details will actually be registered in PA Assignments. However, is has been argued that this interpretation is wrong and that PA Assignments in the RIPE DB must include the actual end-user details. And even though this is out of scope for the 2023-04 discussion, it is still something that is worth resolving. As changing this interpretation would be a major departure of many years of accepted practice and potentially involve updating thousands of RIPE DB objects, we feel this discussion would be best served by an independent policy proposal that clarifies the issue and would like to invite the working group to enter one. Kind regards, Alex Le Heux, for the Address Policy WG co-chairs
Dear WG! I would like to propose that we start working on *a "Best current operational Practices" Document for "Registration Information/Contact Information".* The idea is that the document is done in a similar manner to the "Best Current Operational Practice for Operators: IPv6 prefix assignment for end-users"(https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-690). Why do it this way, instead of alter the policy? I do not belive we would ever be able to accuratly cover every possible scenario (without introducing a lot of annoyance/complexity/overhead). However..having a guide/idea to help community members with common scenarios/inspiration for the own documentation - makes a lot of sense. Kind regards, Sebastian On 1/12/24 08:56, Alex Le Heux wrote:
Dear Working Group,
During the discussion about AGGREGATED-BY-LIR status for IPv4 PA assignments the argument has been raised that this proposal would substantially change the registration requirements for end-user assignments in the RIPE DB and the discussion has been going around in circles ever since.
We would like to point out the following:
From the RIPE NCC Impact Analysis:
[...]
Acceptance of this proposal will not change the fact that the RIPE NCC cannot enforce which contact details members add to their IPv4 PA assignments in the RIPE Database; this will remain their decision.
[...]
As well as:
It is fact that the RIPE NCC has interpreted the current policy to not require a PA Assignment in the RIPE DB to include the actual name and email address of the end-user since at leas the late 1990s. Registering a PA Assignment with something like "CUSTOMER-1234" and an email address pointing to the LIR has been acceptable for all this time.
In its impact analysis the RIPE NCC has indicated that this proposal does not change this interpretation.
It should therefore be clear that 2023-04 does not in fact change anything regarding how end-user details will actually be registered in PA Assignments.
However, is has been argued that this interpretation is wrong and that PA Assignments in the RIPE DB must include the actual end-user details. And even though this is out of scope for the 2023-04 discussion, it is still something that is worth resolving. As changing this interpretation would be a major departure of many years of accepted practice and potentially involve updating thousands of RIPE DB objects, we feel this discussion would be best served by an independent policy proposal that clarifies the issue and would like to invite the working group to enter one.
Kind regards,
Alex Le Heux, for the Address Policy WG co-chairs
Hi, On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 08:56:48AM +0100, Alex Le Heux wrote:
However, is has been argued that this interpretation is wrong and that PA Assignments in the RIPE DB must include the actual end-user details. And even though this is out of scope for the 2023-04 discussion, it is still something that is worth resolving. As changing this interpretation would be a major departure of many years of accepted practice and potentially involve updating thousands of RIPE DB objects, we feel this discussion would be best served by an independent policy proposal that clarifies the issue and would like to invite the working group to enter one.
This. I personally feel that the way this is currently handled "by all parties involved" is reasonable middle ground - documentation is available, and the level of end-user detail depends on local agreements and also requirements. I am aware that Dennis found text in the policy documents that require doing something different, namely having admin-c "on site", whatever that may mean in a context where the "ASSIGNED PA" inetnum is in a datacenter somewhere (so, nobody "on site", in particularily not "working for the customer"). So formally there is a conflict. But this is all outside of 2023-04, so if we think that the current way of "getting things done" is in conflict to (very very old) policy text, it sounds as if we need to adjust that old text, because "overtaken by history". I'm not actively volunteering, just supporting Alex' point :-) Gert Doering -- LIR contact since 1995 or so... -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
participants (3)
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Alex Le Heux -
Gert Doering -
Sebastian Graf