Agree, propousal is not good. There ara lot of facts about it. If propousal will be accepted it s good idea to publish current stats at public and compare situation after 6, 12, 24 months. Becouse free ipv4 at ripe is growing. It's better to make ipv4 easy to get. Lets say give new lir /21 but not /22. Then a lot of companies who has ip space not in use prefer to transfer it. And space will be more fair redistributed between members. And any limits on transfers are not good too. Then situation will be controled by members, but not ripe. Yuri@ip4market Отправлено с устройства Samsung -------- Исходное сообщение -------- От: Shahin Gharghi <shahin@gharghi.ir> Дата: 29.06.2015 22:16 (GMT+02:00) Кому: address-policy-wg@ripe.net Тема: [address-policy-wg] We need IPv4 transfers Dear group members Hi ! I am seriously against this proposal, because it won't be able to stop making financial profit out of IPv4. First of all, as mentioned in proposal, by this rate of transfers, last /8 will be exhausted in 5.5 years and we will have to switch to IPv6 in 5 years…  So do you think that we should still care about it?! Knowing that these IP's are valuable, I think that they must belong to RIPE NCC's members and it is their right to have them,  so We should make a policy to increase the startup fees or get new entrants , to pay for the whole year fee or transfer fee, and this way it helps us reduce the annual fee of other LIR's and prevent from the unnecessary transfers. On the other hand, it should be considered, that if people are not be able to sell the IP's, they will lend them to others with high rates and therefore they can make financial profits again. Above all, you know that, we have reserved a lot of IP's before ( Multicast, Class E, private ranges and etc.) and I think, it should not be  important to reserve more and more again…. They are supposed to be used oneday, since no one would need IPv4 after implementing IPv6. The people, who are in need of IP’s would have no other choice to buy, I would like to know the proposal’s solution for this problem? The most abusers have gotten IP's before 2012 and have already sold most of them, moreover, there is a bug, you can transfer the IP's by taking ownership of the whole organization and I found these transfers useful, because anyone who needs IP would be able to buy it, otherwise how RIPE NCC can fairly distribute IP's ? In the end, I would like  to ask those LIR's that have recently joined us  and need more IP, not to be shy and courageously tell us about their opinions. -- Shahin Gharghi