Policy proposal 2007-01, "Direct Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC"
[ I wanted to send this a little earlier, but was caught up in transit to the ARIN meeting. cheers, Axel ] Dear all, It has come to my attention that the community has pointed out that there is no draft of an actual End User contract included in policy proposal 2007-01. This issue has been raised after the proposal was moved to the Review Phase of the Policy Development Process (PDP) and a draft policy document was published. After extensive discussion, the RIPE NCC Executive Board does not believe that the addition of a draft contract to proposal 2007-01 is necessary. Preferred model The Executive Board anticipates that this proposal will introduce a dual model whereby an End User can chose to have *either* a contract with a "sponsoring Local Internet Registry (LIR)" or directly with the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board believes that having a “sponsoring LIR” is the preferred model; the RIPE NCC currently has more than 5400 members, from which the sponsoring LIR can be chosen. This model has been outlined in the draft document. Further, the Executive Board maintains that the RIPE NCC should not be involved in any contractual processes or details that occur between an LIR and its customer. Such contracts should be formulated by the "sponsoring" LIR and not by the RIPE NCC. However, the Executive Board would like to point out that any contract between End User and "sponsoring LIR" must be formulated clearly so that the End User understands the consequences,as outlined in the RIPE proposal, of applying for or holding a direct resource assignment. Proposal 2007-01, and existing RIPE policies, already have references to such consequences and outline possible cautions that "supporting LIRs" may want to include in their customers' contracts. The RIPE NCC, however, will always available for consultation about the consequences and cautions mentioned above. Direct contracts with the RIPE NCC The Executive Board also understands that the proposal introduces the option for those End Users who cannot form a contract with a "Sponsoring LIR" to form a contract directly with the RIPE NCC. In this case the End User will be required to set up an LIR and become a RIPE NCC member. Charging Scheme If this proposal is accepted, the charging scheme applied by the RIPE NCC to "Sponsoring LIRs" will be addressed by the RIPE NCC Executive Board in due course and reviewed by the RIPE NCC membership during RIPE NCC General Meetings. Conclusion Overall, the Executive Board and I understand that the proposal's intention is to facilitate clear and improved contractual relationships with End Users so that the obligations of responsible stewardship of Internet resources can be fulfilled by LIRs and the RIPE NCC. We believe that the details of the actual contracts between End User and "supporting LIR" should be devised by the LIR. It is, of course, the responsibility of the LIRs together with the RIPE NCC to ensure that the details set out in these contracts comply with the guidelines that the RIPE policies have set. Regards, Axel Pawlik Managing Director RIPE NCC
Hi, On 8 Apr 2008, at 03:18, Axel Pawlik wrote:
The Executive Board also understands that the proposal introduces the option for those End Users who cannot form a contract with a "Sponsoring LIR" to form a contract directly with the RIPE NCC.
Thanks for a clear direction/opinion. Please can you identify such an occasion when you think the above may apply ?
In this case the End User will be required to set up an LIR and become a RIPE NCC member.
Based on Axel's comments that End Site -> LIR -> RIR will still be the encouraged application route, and that end sites will need to join the RIPE NCC in order to apply for resources, I support 2007-01. Best wishes Andy
Andy Davidson wrote:
Hi,
On 8 Apr 2008, at 03:18, Axel Pawlik wrote:
The Executive Board also understands that the proposal introduces the option for those End Users who cannot form a contract with a "Sponsoring LIR" to form a contract directly with the RIPE NCC.
Thanks for a clear direction/opinion. Please can you identify such an occasion when you think the above may apply ?
Andy, this provision is for the case that an end user cannot find a friendly LIR / RIPE NCC member to take him under its wings. I don't think that this is a very likely case, but you mileage may vary.
In this case the End User will be required to set up an LIR and become a RIPE NCC member.
Based on Axel's comments that End Site -> LIR -> RIR will still be the encouraged application route, and that end sites will need to join the RIPE NCC in order to apply for resources, I support 2007-01.
Misunderstanding? End users who establish a relationship with an LIR will not have to become RIPE NCC members. One contract should be enough :-) cheers, Axel
On 8 Apr 2008, at 14:53, Axel Pawlik wrote:
Misunderstanding? End users who establish a relationship with an LIR will not have to become RIPE NCC members. One contract should be enough :-)
Sorry, misunderstanding yes - end sites who do not send their request through an LIR will need to become members. best wishes andy
Hello Axel, I think you and/or the NCC board has misinterpreted the proposal.
Preferred model
The Executive Board anticipates that this proposal will introduce a dual model whereby an End User can chose to have *either* a contract with a "sponsoring Local Internet Registry (LIR)" or directly with the RIPE NCC.
This is correct, however;
Direct contracts with the RIPE NCC
The Executive Board also understands that the proposal introduces the option for those End Users who cannot form a contract with a "Sponsoring LIR" to form a contract directly with the RIPE NCC. In this case the End User will be required to set up an LIR and become a RIPE NCC member.
This is not. It is intended that there will be a new kind of contract between the RIPE NCC and the End User. It is specifically not intended to be an LIR contract. Nick Hilliard proposed the following in his RIPE 55 presentation: End-user can deal with RIPE NCC directly - envisage a web based auto-signup procedure - fully automated, no human interaction - registration expires unless bills are paid He also included a transfer method in his presentation: Careful transfer method required, to deal with: - friendly transfer from LIR to LIR - transfer from hostile LIR at end-users’request - transfer from LIR to RIPE NCC - transfer from RIPE NCC to LIR As you can see, this does not fit with your / the boards interpretation of the policy. Therefore the following part of your message does not seem to apply anymore:
After extensive discussion, the RIPE NCC Executive Board does not believe that the addition of a draft contract to proposal 2007-01 is necessary.
I would like to ask the RIPE NCC Executive Board to make a draft contract which conforms to the intentions of policy proposal 2007-01. Thank you, Sander Steffann Address Policy WG co-chair
participants (3)
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Andy Davidson
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Axel Pawlik
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Sander Steffann