Re: [address-policy-wg] address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 122, Issue 3
Okay, no problem, I have only the one question: - Why RIPE NCC ignores EU sanctions against Russia? -- Regards, Den 02.03.2022 13:00, address-policy-wg-request@ripe.net wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: RU goverment IP revoke (James Kennedy)
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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:04:45 +0100 From: James Kennedy<jameskennedy001@gmail.com> To:address-policy-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] RU goverment IP revoke Message-ID: <CAN4ZMgXrDem2TJe=5O8ioz_OULQiJPynt_JhSYtboQemhvAx9w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Community friends,
The urge for action is understandably strong but please, refrain from using this working group as a platform for targeted cyber attacks. Despite where the moral compass may point.
Also this is not the most effective forum for discussing potential sanctions or exceptions for specific RIPE NCC members. I would suggest the ripe-list (www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/) or perhaps the RIPE NCC Services WG (https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/wg/active-wg/services) are more appropriate for airing such concerns. Address Policy - which is the focus of this working group - is applied consistently to all RIPE NCC members.
Regards, James APWG co-chair
On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 4:03 PM Den<den.rlir@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jan,
Thanks for your time, looks like other's are too busy or already at the basement / under attack..
Here's what I've found:
AS8291 The Federal Guard Service of the Russian Federation / Main Division of Informations Resources / kremlin.ru, etc. AS43797 The Federal Guard Service of the Russian Federation AS42121 The Federal Guard Service of the Russian Federation AS48552 OJSC The Russian Armed Forces Broadcasting Company ZVEZDA AS57767 Federal State-owned Enterprise Russian Television and Radio Broadcasting Network AS57352 Federal State Unitary Enterprise Rossiya Segodnya International Information Agency AS57107 Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Russian Satellite Communication Company" AS57767 Federal State-owned Enterprise Russian Television and Radio Broadcasting Network AS59541 Federal State-owned Enterprise "Russian Television and Radio Broadcasting Network" AS44479 Federal State Unitary Enterprise Rossiya Segodnya International Information Agency AS25292 Federal State Unitary Enterprise "The Russian Television and Radio Broadcasting Company" AS211382 Federal State Unitary Enterprise of the Order of the Red Banner of Labour "Russian Broad-casting and AS208075 Federal State Unitary Enterprise of the Order of the Red Banner of Labour "Russian Broad-casting and AS201030 Federal state unitary enterprise "Public corporation for organisation of air traffic in Russian Fede AS198372 Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Television Technical Center "Ostankino" AS197969 Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Morsviazsputnik" AS197553 Federal state unitary enterprise 'State Research Institute of Aviation Systems' AS197150 Federal State Unitary Enterprise of the Order of the Red Banner of Labour "Russian Broad-casting and AS196641 Federal Unitary State Enterprise General Radio Freqency Centre AS57724 DDOS-GUARD THAT HIDES RT.COM and others russian's broadcasting companies
....
(This list can be much longer, it's from my quick research)
Guys, who read, please help us, please make some unexpected failures, anyway you know what to do.
*Let's make our work Now!*
Thanks for all of you guys, we all want Internet with freedom and without dictatorship!
Love and peace for all of you guys!
--
Cheers, Den --
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Why RIPE NCC ignores EU sanctions against Russia?
Which specific EU sanctions do you think the NCC is ignoring?
On 16.03.22 13:13, Jim Reid wrote:
Why RIPE NCC ignores EU sanctions against Russia? Which specific EU sanctions do you think the NCC is ignoring?
Well, the SWIFT ban for certain Russian banks, circumvented via [1], springs to mind. But these things are outside the scope of APWG, as James already pointed out. [1] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2022-March/001555.html
I'm not a law-specialist, but while so many companies exits from Russia you are still doing your business there and supporting them, i.e. from Hans words "We have also informed Russian members that they do not risk closure if sanctions-related factors mean they are unable to make payment.". -- Regards, Den 16.03.2022 14:13, Jim Reid wrote:
Why RIPE NCC ignores EU sanctions against Russia? Which specific EU sanctions do you think the NCC is ignoring?
The sanctions don't prohibit all trade with Russia and most of the companies choosing not to continue it are doing so because they think it will help. I'm sure the RIPE NCC will not be willingly violating law here. Matthias Merkel -----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Den Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 9:30 PM To: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> Cc: address-policy-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] EU sanctions against Russia I'm not a law-specialist, but while so many companies exits from Russia you are still doing your business there and supporting them, i.e. from Hans words "We have also informed Russian members that they do not risk closure if sanctions-related factors mean they are unable to make payment.". -- Regards, Den 16.03.2022 14:13, Jim Reid wrote:
Why RIPE NCC ignores EU sanctions against Russia? Which specific EU sanctions do you think the NCC is ignoring?
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In such a critical time, we see that the RIPE board decided to work with them, to support them... no comments. -- Regards, Den 16.03.2022 22:37, Matthias Merkel wrote:
The sanctions don't prohibit all trade with Russia and most of the companies choosing not to continue it are doing so because they think it will help. I'm sure the RIPE NCC will not be willingly violating law here.
Matthias Merkel
-----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Den Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 9:30 PM To: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> Cc: address-policy-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] EU sanctions against Russia
I'm not a law-specialist, but while so many companies exits from Russia you are still doing your business there and supporting them, i.e. from Hans words "We have also informed Russian members that they do not risk closure if sanctions-related factors mean they are unable to make payment.".
-- Regards, Den
16.03.2022 14:13, Jim Reid wrote:
Why RIPE NCC ignores EU sanctions against Russia? Which specific EU sanctions do you think the NCC is ignoring?
Dear colleagues, After the recent adoption of EU sanctions against Russia, we’ve seen some confusion about our compliance. We have published an article that explains why the RIPE NCC remains fully compliant with the latest sanctions: https://labs.ripe.net/author/athina/eu-sanctions-and-our-russian-membership/ <https://labs.ripe.net/author/athina/eu-sanctions-and-our-russian-membership/> Kind regards, Athina Fragkouli Chief Legal Officer RIPE NCC
On 18 Mar 2022, at 18:35, Athina Fragkouli <afragkou@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
Peace. I am glad to see that RIPE NCC is legally clean. There are questions about humanism but of course this is not a cope of work of RIPE NCC.
After the recent adoption of EU sanctions against Russia, we’ve seen some confusion about our compliance. We have published an article that explains why the RIPE NCC remains fully compliant with the latest sanctions:
https://labs.ripe.net/author/athina/eu-sanctions-and-our-russian-membership/
Kind regards,
Athina Fragkouli Chief Legal Officer RIPE NCC
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-- Taras Heichenko tasic@academ.kiev.ua
W dniu 19.03.2022 o 06:59, Taras Heichenko pisze:
Peace.
I am glad to see that RIPE NCC is legally clean. There are questions about humanism but of course this is not a cope of work of RIPE NCC.
In my opinion - it is not. RIPE NCC claims to operate in accordance with its own policies, that are created by the community. Meanwhile, we have a selective treatment of Members in terms of payments without: a) RIPE NCC resolutions b) without annexes to contracts with users. c) policy change Neither the Agreement nor the existing policies allow for discretionary behavior like "this user may not pay, and others must" without formal authorization. Of course Ukraine as an attacked country can and must be treated with any aid, including exemption from payments, when possible. But it has to be passed by a resolution of the RIPE NCC ordinance. The resolution may contain one sentence: "We do not issue invoices to Ukrainian members until the end of the war." Vote: who is in favor? All? The End. On the other end is Russia, as a country that has been subject to sanctions. It should not be of our interest, that they cannot pay. In result, recognizing that Russia users may not pay, because they have "banking difficulties" means, that no one from Russia will pay. Without any consequences. Although they probably can pay. Letting go at this point is very unfair to other Members. I also have a difficult in payment because the Euro exchange rate is very high. Does it interest someone? -- Stary Bezpiecznik
Hi Everyone, Discussion of the charging scheme and how it is applied falls outside the scope of the Address Policy WG. The RIPE NCC's membership has a discussion list. That is the right place to discuss this topic: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/membership-mailing-lists/sub... It is worth noting that there are active discussions of charging related topics on that list. Kind regards, Leo Vegoda for the Address Policy WG Co-Chairs On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 2:29 AM Stary Bezpiek <stary.bezpiecznik@gmail.com> wrote:
W dniu 19.03.2022 o 06:59, Taras Heichenko pisze:
Peace.
I am glad to see that RIPE NCC is legally clean. There are questions about humanism but of course this is not a cope of work of RIPE NCC.
In my opinion - it is not. RIPE NCC claims to operate in accordance with its own policies, that are created by the community.
Meanwhile, we have a selective treatment of Members in terms of payments without: a) RIPE NCC resolutions b) without annexes to contracts with users. c) policy change Neither the Agreement nor the existing policies allow for discretionary behavior like "this user may not pay, and others must" without formal authorization.
Of course Ukraine as an attacked country can and must be treated with any aid, including exemption from payments, when possible. But it has to be passed by a resolution of the RIPE NCC ordinance. The resolution may contain one sentence: "We do not issue invoices to Ukrainian members until the end of the war." Vote: who is in favor? All? The End.
On the other end is Russia, as a country that has been subject to sanctions. It should not be of our interest, that they cannot pay. In result, recognizing that Russia users may not pay, because they have "banking difficulties" means, that no one from Russia will pay. Without any consequences. Although they probably can pay. Letting go at this point is very unfair to other Members.
I also have a difficult in payment because the Euro exchange rate is very high. Does it interest someone?
-- Stary Bezpiecznik
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Dear Leo, Would you please say this to Athina Fragkouli. Or she can? On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 1:59 PM Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Discussion of the charging scheme and how it is applied falls outside the scope of the Address Policy WG.
The RIPE NCC's membership has a discussion list. That is the right place to discuss this topic:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/membership-mailing-lists/sub...
It is worth noting that there are active discussions of charging related topics on that list.
Kind regards,
Leo Vegoda for the Address Policy WG Co-Chairs
On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 2:29 AM Stary Bezpiek <stary.bezpiecznik@gmail.com> wrote:
W dniu 19.03.2022 o 06:59, Taras Heichenko pisze:
Peace.
I am glad to see that RIPE NCC is legally clean. There are questions about humanism but of course this is not a cope of work of RIPE NCC.
In my opinion - it is not. RIPE NCC claims to operate in accordance with its own policies, that are created by the community.
Meanwhile, we have a selective treatment of Members in terms of payments without: a) RIPE NCC resolutions b) without annexes to contracts with users. c) policy change Neither the Agreement nor the existing policies allow for discretionary behavior like "this user may not pay, and others must" without formal authorization.
Of course Ukraine as an attacked country can and must be treated with any aid, including exemption from payments, when possible. But it has to be passed by a resolution of the RIPE NCC ordinance. The resolution may contain one sentence: "We do not issue invoices to Ukrainian members until the end of the war." Vote: who is in favor? All? The End.
On the other end is Russia, as a country that has been subject to sanctions. It should not be of our interest, that they cannot pay. In result, recognizing that Russia users may not pay, because they have "banking difficulties" means, that no one from Russia will pay. Without any consequences. Although they probably can pay. Letting go at this point is very unfair to other Members.
I also have a difficult in payment because the Euro exchange rate is very high. Does it interest someone?
-- Stary Bezpiecznik
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-- Sergey
Hi, On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 10:29:38AM +0100, Stary Bezpiek wrote:
Meanwhile, we have a selective treatment of Members in terms of payments without: [...]
as has been pointed out a number of times, LIR payment issues are totally off-topic on the APWG list, and need to be addressed to the ripe-members@ list or to the board. Gert Doering -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Hi, On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 02:04:48PM +0200, Den wrote:
Okay, no problem, I have only the one question:
- Why RIPE NCC ignores EU sanctions against Russia?
The "address policy WG" is the wrong place to ask about "why does the RIPE NCC something". We're not the NCC. Gert Doering -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
participants (10)
-
Athina Fragkouli -
Den -
Gert Doering -
Jim Reid -
Kai 'wusel' Siering -
Leo Vegoda -
Matthias Merkel -
Serg Galat -
Stary Bezpiek -
Taras Heichenko