Hello. On the 7th of September the NCC implemeted the document https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer35 (The document is published on the 21th of September). The support clarify it that you cannot merge one LIR into the second LIR in case of M&A procedure because of the 24 month resource transfer restriction. However there is another document https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-682#2-2-transfer… where you can read the next: 2.2 Transfer Restrictions This restriction does not prevent the resources from being transferred due to further mergers or acquisitions within the 24-month period. In this case the NCC doesn't follow own policies. Or am I wrong? I though the NCC should create the proposal to make changes to the transfer policies but don't implement unclear documents by the executive board consisting of 7 people. Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum
Hi Aleksey,
On the 7th of September the NCC implemeted the document https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer35 (The document is published on the 21th of September). The support clarify it that you cannot merge one LIR into the second LIR in case of M&A procedure because of the 24 month resource transfer restriction.
That section doesn't seem to be about M&A. It talks about normal transfers between LIRs that belong to the same member.
However there is another document https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-682#2-2-transfer… where you can read the next:
2.2 Transfer Restrictions This restriction does not prevent the resources from being transferred due to further mergers or acquisitions within the 24-month period.
M&A is a different thing. It involves changes in legal business structures. Take a look at https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer31 item ii: """ If the transfer is taking place due to a change in the structure of the organisation(s) involved (e.g., merger, acquisition), a description of the changes among these organisation(s) is necessary. This description must be accompanied by the official legal documents issued by the relevant national authorities proving/supporting the changes the request is based on. If the change in the structure of the organisation(s) involved cannot be proven/supported by official documentation from national authorities describing this change (e.g., a network acquisition from one member to another), then these cases will fall within the scope of RIPE Policy "RIPE Resource Transfer Policies". """ If it is not M&A then the normal policies apply, even when transferring between LIRs belonging to the same member. That includes the 24 month waiting period.
In this case the NCC doesn't follow own policies. Or am I wrong?
As far as I can see the NCC is following the policy. Cheers, Sander
Hi, On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 09:16:50AM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
Hi, Sander.<div><br /></div><div>And what if the two legal entities have one owner/director? Is there any document where described that it is equivalent of 2 accounts of the same company?
That does not seem to be relevant here. Either it is a M&A, in which case the former owner is not relevant, or it's a normal transfer, in which case the owner is also not relevant. Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by official documents. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
We are going through an M&A at the current time. RIPENCC have asked me, as we are both UK companies, to have our purchase agreement notarised. This is a true acquisition and not some convoluted way of bypassing the system. If anyone wants me to update them how the process works I will do so off list. Cheers, Adrian. Sent from my iPhone
On 15 Dec 2018, at 08:51, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 09:16:50AM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: Hi, Sander.<div><br /></div><div>And what if the two legal entities have one owner/director? Is there any document where described that it is equivalent of 2 accounts of the same company?
That does not seem to be relevant here.
Either it is a M&A, in which case the former owner is not relevant, or it's a normal transfer, in which case the owner is also not relevant.
Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by official documents.
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by official documents.
This is also not correct! At least from my experience, the restriction also persists on being bought! The difference between being bought and merged is, at least from German legal point of view, that in a merge (=Verschmelzung) the $OLD company does not exist any longer but becomes fully integrated into $NEW company, while in buying a company, $OLD stays it's own legal entit y.
From my experience ONLY A MERGE IS accepted by RIPE to not apply 24month restriction, while being bought does not shorten this restrictio n.
BR -- Jens Ott Geschäftsführer Opteamax GmbH Simrockstr. 4b 53619 Rheinbreitbach Tel.: +49 2224 969500 Fax: +49 2224 97691059 Email: jo@opteamax.de HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989
Hi. Regarding our situation. We have 3 accounts opened this year (for different legal entities). We provided the oficial government documents that confirm M&A procedure. But the NCC doesn't want to merge 2 accounts (of closed organizations) into the 1st account due to it is necessary to convert such accounts into additional account of receiving party, regarding https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36. But there is restriction to transfer the resources during 24 month between accounts of the same member. So we should pay for additional 2 years fees. пн, 17 дек. 2018 г. в 21:12, Jens Ott - Opteamax GmbH <ripe@opteamax.de>:
Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by official documents.
This is also not correct! At least from my experience, the restriction also persists on being bought!
The difference between being bought and merged is, at least from German legal point of view, that in a merge (=Verschmelzung) the $OLD company does not exist any longer but becomes fully integrated into $NEW company, while in buying a company, $OLD stays it's own legal entit y.
From my experience ONLY A MERGE IS accepted by RIPE to not apply 24month restriction, while being bought does not shorten this restrictio n.
BR
-- Jens Ott Geschäftsführer
Opteamax GmbH
Simrockstr. 4b 53619 Rheinbreitbach
Tel.: +49 2224 969500 Fax: +49 2224 97691059 Email: jo@opteamax.de
HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989
-- ---------- Best regards, Alexey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29
Aleksey, You do as if this was a surprise, but this is clearly documented and discussed. And you have been on the mailinglist for long enough to know that up front as well. If you have 3 LIR accounts this year, and want to put the resources in a single LIR, you MUST wait for 2 years before you can do so. All LIR accounts that are in either entity should be paid in FULL for the hole year once you start transferring resources. This means you pay per LIR : 2000 euro setup fee. 1400 euro first year 1400 euro second year Times 3 ... After that, you can request for a transfer of the resources in to a single account and close the 2 other LIR's. After which, you have a single LIR account with 3 resources in it and a future cost of 1400 euro per year. What you want to do has nothing to do with a Policy violation ... the policy is clear, RIPE NCC is executing the policy as documented. Regards, Erik Bais On 17/12/2018, 19:22, "address-policy-wg on behalf of Aleksey Bulgakov" <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net on behalf of aleksbulgakov@gmail.com> wrote: Hi. Regarding our situation. We have 3 accounts opened this year (for different legal entities). We provided the oficial government documents that confirm M&A procedure. But the NCC doesn't want to merge 2 accounts (of closed organizations) into the 1st account due to it is necessary to convert such accounts into additional account of receiving party, regarding https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36. But there is restriction to transfer the resources during 24 month between accounts of the same member. So we should pay for additional 2 years fees. пн, 17 дек. 2018 г. в 21:12, Jens Ott - Opteamax GmbH <ripe@opteamax.de>: > > > > Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless > > one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by > > official documents. > > This is also not correct! At least from my experience, the restriction > also persists on being bought! > > The difference between being bought and merged is, at least from > German legal point of view, that in a merge (=Verschmelzung) the $OLD > company does not exist any longer but becomes fully integrated into > $NEW company, while in buying a company, $OLD stays it's own legal entit > y. > > From my experience ONLY A MERGE IS accepted by RIPE to not apply > 24month restriction, while being bought does not shorten this restrictio > n. > > BR > > -- > Jens Ott > Geschäftsführer > > Opteamax GmbH > > Simrockstr. 4b > 53619 Rheinbreitbach > > Tel.: +49 2224 969500 > Fax: +49 2224 97691059 > Email: jo@opteamax.de > > HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur > Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott > Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989 > -- ---------- Best regards, Alexey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29
Erik, Let me disagree with you. 1. If you open account e.g. in January 2019, you may merge accounts in January 2021 only and you will pay for 2019, 2020 and 2021 years + for the new SSA. Total price is 6200 euro. You can open account in the 4th quarter of 2018. In this case the total price is 2000 + 2*1400 + 350 = 5150 (But the NCC made fees for whole year earlier even if you start in November). 2. I didn't see discussions about this restrictions. I received it on the 29th of October 2018 when it was already implemented. So then the NCC will say that it's non-commercial organization. вт, 18 дек. 2018 г., 12:06 Erik Bais ebais@a2b-internet.com:
Aleksey,
You do as if this was a surprise, but this is clearly documented and discussed. And you have been on the mailinglist for long enough to know that up front as well.
If you have 3 LIR accounts this year, and want to put the resources in a single LIR, you MUST wait for 2 years before you can do so.
All LIR accounts that are in either entity should be paid in FULL for the hole year once you start transferring resources.
This means you pay per LIR :
2000 euro setup fee. 1400 euro first year 1400 euro second year
Times 3 ...
After that, you can request for a transfer of the resources in to a single account and close the 2 other LIR's.
After which, you have a single LIR account with 3 resources in it and a future cost of 1400 euro per year.
What you want to do has nothing to do with a Policy violation ... the policy is clear, RIPE NCC is executing the policy as documented.
Regards, Erik Bais
On 17/12/2018, 19:22, "address-policy-wg on behalf of Aleksey Bulgakov" < address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net on behalf of aleksbulgakov@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi.
Regarding our situation. We have 3 accounts opened this year (for different legal entities). We provided the oficial government documents that confirm M&A procedure. But the NCC doesn't want to merge 2 accounts (of closed organizations) into the 1st account due to it is necessary to convert such accounts into additional account of receiving party, regarding https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36.
But there is restriction to transfer the resources during 24 month between accounts of the same member. So we should pay for additional 2 years fees. пн, 17 дек. 2018 г. в 21:12, Jens Ott - Opteamax GmbH < ripe@opteamax.de>: > > > > Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless > > one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by > > official documents. > > This is also not correct! At least from my experience, the restriction > also persists on being bought! > > The difference between being bought and merged is, at least from > German legal point of view, that in a merge (=Verschmelzung) the $OLD > company does not exist any longer but becomes fully integrated into > $NEW company, while in buying a company, $OLD stays it's own legal entit > y. > > From my experience ONLY A MERGE IS accepted by RIPE to not apply > 24month restriction, while being bought does not shorten this restrictio > n. > > BR > > -- > Jens Ott > Geschäftsführer > > Opteamax GmbH > > Simrockstr. 4b > 53619 Rheinbreitbach > > Tel.: +49 2224 969500 > Fax: +49 2224 97691059 > Email: jo@opteamax.de > > HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur > Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott > Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989 >
-- ---------- Best regards, Alexey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29
Hi, On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:37:40PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
So then the NCC will say that it's non-commercial organization.
This is not about making money. It is about making it clear that you can't just get cheap /22s from the RIPE NCC. But you know all that. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
I think the NCC wants to have Monopoly for IP selling and doesn't want to devide profit with anyone. Of course it has more profit if there are more members with multiple accounts or many different accounts of different legal entities witch will pay for many years later. вт, 18 дек. 2018 г., 12:40 Gert Doering gert@space.net:
Hi,
On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:37:40PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
So then the NCC will say that it's non-commercial organization.
This is not about making money. It is about making it clear that you can't just get cheap /22s from the RIPE NCC.
But you know all that.
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Hi, On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 01:30:11PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
I think the NCC wants to have Monopoly for IP selling and doesn't want to devide profit with anyone.
Of course it has more profit if there are more members with multiple accounts or many different accounts of different legal entities witch will pay for many years later.
We understand that you are unhappy that you cannot get IPv4 addresses in unlimited amounts for free from the RIPE NCC anymore. This is unfortunate, but a fact of live that you share with everybody else who wants more IPv4 addresses. The policies work nicely as designed: stopping those that do not care about others from using up all the remaining addresses in a selfish manner. So, please stop complaining. You are just wasting everyone else's time. Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Hello, Look Aleksey, the RIPE NCC is a not for profit, membership based organization, the RIPE NCC doesn't sell IP space, you get IP space from the RIPE NCC by being a member in the RIPE NCC. Also, when they get more money than they will need, they vote on what to do with the money. I can not stress this enough, the RIPE NCC is a not for profit, who gets resources from IANA. They are just doing their best to evenly divide the IP space. Please stop complaining, you won't get anywhere with it and you are wasting people's time. Kind regards, Cynthia Revström On 2018-12-18 11:30, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
I think the NCC wants to have Monopoly for IP selling and doesn't want to devide profit with anyone.
Of course it has more profit if there are more members with multiple accounts or many different accounts of different legal entities witch will pay for many years later.
вт, 18 дек. 2018 г., 12:40 Gert Doering gert@space.net <mailto:gert@space.net>:
Hi,
On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:37:40PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: > So then the NCC will say that it's non-commercial organization.
This is not about making money. It is about making it clear that you can't just get cheap /22s from the RIPE NCC.
But you know all that.
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
On 18 Dec 2018, at 10:38, Cynthia Revström via address-policy-wg <address-policy-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Look Aleksey, the RIPE NCC is a not for profit, membership based organization, the RIPE NCC doesn't sell IP space, you get IP space from the RIPE NCC by being a member in the RIPE NCC.
Also, when they get more money than they will need, they vote on what to do with the money.
I can not stress this enough, the RIPE NCC is a not for profit, who gets resources from IANA.
They are just doing their best to evenly divide the IP space.
Please stop complaining, you won't get anywhere with it and you are wasting people's time.
Well said!
Aleksey, your stream of argument: On 18.12.2018 11:30, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
I think the NCC wants to have Monopoly for IP selling and doesn't want to devide profit with anyone.
Of course it has more profit if there are more members with multiple accounts or many different accounts of different legal entities witch will pay for many years later.
makes me sad. Very sad. As it is so... Ignorant? Fully intentionally misguiding? Deeply depressed: -C.
As I got flagged by one active participant in this thread what I would mean by the below; whether it has been the NCC or the participant who I felt is attempting to intentionally misguiding the audience? To be crystal clear: the latter of the two. On 18.12.2018 13:16, Carsten Schiefner wrote:
Aleksey,
your stream of argument:
On 18.12.2018 11:30, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
I think the NCC wants to have Monopoly for IP selling and doesn't want to devide profit with anyone.
Of course it has more profit if there are more members with multiple accounts or many different accounts of different legal entities witch will pay for many years later.
makes me sad.
Very sad.
As it is so...
Ignorant?
Fully intentionally misguiding?
Deeply depressed:
-C.
On 18.12.2018 16:19, Carsten Schiefner wrote:
As I got flagged by one active participant in this thread what I would mean by the below; whether it has been the NCC or the participant who I felt is attempting to intentionally misguiding the audience?
To be crystal clear: the latter of the two.
And to also make this very clear: I am, however, very delighted by my observation that the vast majority of active participants here aren't easily to be take for a ride by crude assertions and wannabe arguments. This WG still works as designed, me thinks. :-)
On 18.12.2018 13:16, Carsten Schiefner wrote:
Aleksey,
your stream of argument:
On 18.12.2018 11:30, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
I think the NCC wants to have Monopoly for IP selling and doesn't want to devide profit with anyone.
Of course it has more profit if there are more members with multiple accounts or many different accounts of different legal entities witch will pay for many years later.
makes me sad.
Very sad.
As it is so...
Ignorant?
Fully intentionally misguiding?
Deeply depressed:
-C.
On 18 Dec 2018, at 10:30, Aleksey Bulgakov <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the NCC wants to have Monopoly for IP selling and doesn't want to devide profit with anyone.
You might well think that. However that doesn't mean it's true. And in this case, you are completely and utterly wrong. Perhaps verging on the delusional. The NCC does not and never has sold address space. It's a not-for-profit membership organisation. It's not allowed to "make profits" in the sense that a commercial undertaking does. In fact the NCC has special status under Dutch law which prevents it from behaving like a for-profit enterprise. Sometimes the membership fees raise more income than the annual budget anticipated. When that happens, the NCC and its board) consults its members on what to do with the surplus. From time to time the members have decided to accept a rebate on their membership fee or have their fees reduced. The membership decides, not the NCC. Since you seem to represent an LIR (or more than one), you get to vote on these matters at the AGM. The NCC's members -- ie the LIRs -- get to elect the board and tell the NCC what to do. It's simply ridiculous to claim the NCC sets out to make more money than it needs and keep all that extra "profit" for itself.
Hi Aleksey, I disagree with your interpretation. NCC is in the right here, you’ve been correctly charged as everyone else. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969<tel:08750969>. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse@clouvider.net<mailto:abuse@clouvider.net> of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. On 18 Dec 2018, at 09:38, Aleksey Bulgakov <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com<mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>> wrote: Erik, Let me disagree with you. 1. If you open account e.g. in January 2019, you may merge accounts in January 2021 only and you will pay for 2019, 2020 and 2021 years + for the new SSA. Total price is 6200 euro. You can open account in the 4th quarter of 2018. In this case the total price is 2000 + 2*1400 + 350 = 5150 (But the NCC made fees for whole year earlier even if you start in November). 2. I didn't see discussions about this restrictions. I received it on the 29th of October 2018 when it was already implemented. So then the NCC will say that it's non-commercial organization. вт, 18 дек. 2018 г., 12:06 Erik Bais ebais@a2b-internet.com<mailto:ebais@a2b-internet.com>: Aleksey, You do as if this was a surprise, but this is clearly documented and discussed. And you have been on the mailinglist for long enough to know that up front as well. If you have 3 LIR accounts this year, and want to put the resources in a single LIR, you MUST wait for 2 years before you can do so. All LIR accounts that are in either entity should be paid in FULL for the hole year once you start transferring resources. This means you pay per LIR : 2000 euro setup fee. 1400 euro first year 1400 euro second year Times 3 ... After that, you can request for a transfer of the resources in to a single account and close the 2 other LIR's. After which, you have a single LIR account with 3 resources in it and a future cost of 1400 euro per year. What you want to do has nothing to do with a Policy violation ... the policy is clear, RIPE NCC is executing the policy as documented. Regards, Erik Bais On 17/12/2018, 19:22, "address-policy-wg on behalf of Aleksey Bulgakov" <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of aleksbulgakov@gmail.com<mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi. Regarding our situation. We have 3 accounts opened this year (for different legal entities). We provided the oficial government documents that confirm M&A procedure. But the NCC doesn't want to merge 2 accounts (of closed organizations) into the 1st account due to it is necessary to convert such accounts into additional account of receiving party, regarding https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36. But there is restriction to transfer the resources during 24 month between accounts of the same member. So we should pay for additional 2 years fees. пн, 17 дек. 2018 г. в 21:12, Jens Ott - Opteamax GmbH <ripe@opteamax.de<mailto:ripe@opteamax.de>>: > > > > Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless > > one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by > > official documents. > > This is also not correct! At least from my experience, the restriction > also persists on being bought! > > The difference between being bought and merged is, at least from > German legal point of view, that in a merge (=Verschmelzung) the $OLD > company does not exist any longer but becomes fully integrated into > $NEW company, while in buying a company, $OLD stays it's own legal entit > y. > > From my experience ONLY A MERGE IS accepted by RIPE to not apply > 24month restriction, while being bought does not shorten this restrictio > n. > > BR > > -- > Jens Ott > Geschäftsführer > > Opteamax GmbH > > Simrockstr. 4b > 53619 Rheinbreitbach > > Tel.: +49 2224 969500 > Fax: +49 2224 97691059 > Email: jo@opteamax.de<mailto:jo@opteamax.de> > > HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur > Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott > Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989 > -- ---------- Best regards, Alexey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29
Dear Aleksey and all, We would like to clarify the situation because the policy refers to transfers between RIPE NCC members and not transfers between the LIR accounts that members might hold. A member may hold multiple LIR accounts. Regarding the section that you refer to in the procedure, please see the mail that was sent to the NCC Announce mailing list in October: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2018-October/001286.htm... This message explains how the RIPE NCC processes transfers of IPv4 address space or 16-bit ASNs due to a merger, acquisition or any other change in business structure. We hope this clarifies that no policy violation has taken place. A merger or acquisition is possible at any time and must take place following the processes outlined in the email. Kind regards, Marco Schmidt Policy Officer RIPE NCC On 17/12/2018 19:21, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
Hi.
Regarding our situation. We have 3 accounts opened this year (for different legal entities). We provided the oficial government documents that confirm M&A procedure. But the NCC doesn't want to merge 2 accounts (of closed organizations) into the 1st account due to it is necessary to convert such accounts into additional account of receiving party, regarding https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36.
But there is restriction to transfer the resources during 24 month between accounts of the same member. So we should pay for additional 2 years fees. пн, 17 дек. 2018 г. в 21:12, Jens Ott - Opteamax GmbH <ripe@opteamax.de>:
Which is kind of the point. The 24 month restriction holds, unless one LIR gets bought/merged, and the latter needs to be proved by official documents. This is also not correct! At least from my experience, the restriction also persists on being bought!
The difference between being bought and merged is, at least from German legal point of view, that in a merge (=Verschmelzung) the $OLD company does not exist any longer but becomes fully integrated into $NEW company, while in buying a company, $OLD stays it's own legal entit y.
From my experience ONLY A MERGE IS accepted by RIPE to not apply 24month restriction, while being bought does not shorten this restrictio n.
BR
-- Jens Ott Geschäftsführer
Opteamax GmbH
Simrockstr. 4b 53619 Rheinbreitbach
Tel.: +49 2224 969500 Fax: +49 2224 97691059 Email: jo@opteamax.de
HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989
participants (12)
-
Adrian Bolster -
Aleksey Bulgakov -
Aleksey Bulgakov -
Carsten Schiefner -
Cynthia Revström -
Dominik Nowacki -
Erik Bais -
Gert Doering -
Jens Ott - Opteamax GmbH -
Jim Reid -
Marco Schmidt -
Sander Steffann