Assignments have legacy status, not IP addresses themselves
The concept that the legacy status applies independently to resources or IP addresses, separate from their assignment to a resource holder, seems incorrect. The legacy status applies to the assignment of resources to a resource holder before the creation of the RIRs, but not to the resources or the IP addresses themselves. All IPv4 addresses were created at the same time. When they were assigned for use differs; therefore, when they were assigned for use and to whom they are assigned for use is what matters. When addresses are transferred to a different organization, a new assignment is made, or in other words, they are reassigned. And it seems proper that the new assignment no longer has the legacy status, as they are now assigned to a different organization. When a merger or acquisition occurs, we also call that a transfer, but it is a transfer to a new version of the same organization, not to a different organization. In this case, it seems propers that the assignment maintains its legacy status, as the same organization, just a different version of the same organization, continues to hold the assignment. The legacy status is important and is not a mistake because, as a community, we believe it is important to maintain the uniqueness of the assignments made before the creation of the RIRs. However, at least in my opinion, it is a mistake to believe that the legacy status applies to IP addresses independent of who holds the assignment. Thank you. -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================
Hi David, I never though on this from your perspective, and I think you’re right. However, the point about M&A it is a bit more complex. If it is just a pure “renaming” of the company I will agree with you, but there are cases, where is not really a new “version of the organization”, in fact it may be just a way for a business to obtain IP addresses, or an ISP join/buy smaller ones to become bigger, etc. I think trying to differentiate those cases will make it very difficult. However, there is an independent problem, which is getting services for free, which are being covered by the rest of the membership. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 21/10/20 13:57, "address-policy-wg en nombre de David Farmer via address-policy-wg" <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de address-policy-wg@ripe.net> escribió: The concept that the legacy status applies independently to resources or IP addresses, separate from their assignment to a resource holder, seems incorrect. The legacy status applies to the assignment of resources to a resource holder before the creation of the RIRs, but not to the resources or the IP addresses themselves. All IPv4 addresses were created at the same time. When they were assigned for use differs; therefore, when they were assigned for use and to whom they are assigned for use is what matters. When addresses are transferred to a different organization, a new assignment is made, or in other words, they are reassigned. And it seems proper that the new assignment no longer has the legacy status, as they are now assigned to a different organization. When a merger or acquisition occurs, we also call that a transfer, but it is a transfer to a new version of the same organization, not to a different organization. In this case, it seems propers that the assignment maintains its legacy status, as the same organization, just a different version of the same organization, continues to hold the assignment. The legacy status is important and is not a mistake because, as a community, we believe it is important to maintain the uniqueness of the assignments made before the creation of the RIRs. However, at least in my opinion, it is a mistake to believe that the legacy status applies to IP addresses independent of who holds the assignment. Thank you. -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 =============================================== ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
Yes, there are many complexities involved with M&As, nevertheless, when two organizations merge, it seems reasonable for any assignments the original organizations had that were legacy status prior to the merger to maintain their legacy status with the newly merged organization. A more complicated situation is when a small part of an organization is transferred and the result of the transaction are two separate organizations. In my mind, if there are other substantial assets, other than just the IP addresses, like maybe a customer base, are involved then maintaining the legacy status makes sense. However, if the only substantial assets transferred are IP addresses then it is not an M&A transfer, but a reassignment to a different organization. Service fees, and who pays what, are not Internet Resource Policy issues, they are business issues that fall under the organizational governance of each RIR. Thanks On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:41 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg < address-policy-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi David,
I never though on this from your perspective, and I think you’re right.
However, the point about M&A it is a bit more complex. If it is just a pure “renaming” of the company I will agree with you, but there are cases, where is not really a new “version of the organization”, in fact it may be just a way for a business to obtain IP addresses, or an ISP join/buy smaller ones to become bigger, etc. I think trying to differentiate those cases will make it very difficult.
However, there is an independent problem, which is getting services for free, which are being covered by the rest of the membership.
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
El 21/10/20 13:57, "address-policy-wg en nombre de David Farmer via address-policy-wg" <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de address-policy-wg@ripe.net> escribió:
The concept that the legacy status applies independently to resources or IP addresses, separate from their assignment to a resource holder, seems incorrect. The legacy status applies to the assignment of resources to a resource holder before the creation of the RIRs, but not to the resources or the IP addresses themselves.
All IPv4 addresses were created at the same time. When they were assigned for use differs; therefore, when they were assigned for use and to whom they are assigned for use is what matters.
When addresses are transferred to a different organization, a new assignment is made, or in other words, they are reassigned. And it seems proper that the new assignment no longer has the legacy status, as they are now assigned to a different organization.
When a merger or acquisition occurs, we also call that a transfer, but it is a transfer to a new version of the same organization, not to a different organization. In this case, it seems propers that the assignment maintains its legacy status, as the same organization, just a different version of the same organization, continues to hold the assignment.
The legacy status is important and is not a mistake because, as a community, we believe it is important to maintain the uniqueness of the assignments made before the creation of the RIRs. However, at least in my opinion, it is a mistake to believe that the legacy status applies to IP addresses independent of who holds the assignment.
Thank you. --
=============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================
********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
-- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================
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David Farmer -
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ