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So please: constructive criticism is welcome, but things like "all that you do is wrong, because APNIC is doing something!" (and no further reason or detail given) are just wasting our time.

excuse! where did i say that? please do not put stupid words into my keyboard, i do that well enough.

I suppose Randy has a killfile that discards messages from j-e-f-f w-i-l-l-i-a-m-s so he didn't realize that Gert was replying to one of Jeff's messages to the list.

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So if we send out a formal proposal to change RIPE things to RIPE lists, and nobody from the RIPE community objects - what's wrong with assuming consensus, then?

i still consider this unwise, and for the reasons i stated. and, in the face of such statements, i do not consider pointing out that we are making, or proposing to make, policy that affects the global internet a waste of time.

I agree with Randy here. The regional boundaries are very fuzzy. The Internet routes across these boundaries as if they were not there. Many companies operate networks in more than one region. I was born in the ARIN region, now I live in the RIPE region and I work for a company whose network spans ARIN, RIPE and APNIC regions. Consensus on a RIPE mailing list could be a way to ignore what is happening in other regions and it could be a way to lock out other people in the RIPE region who haven't thought of looking at the mailing list. I know that the IETF uses mailing list consensus very successfully but the IETF is doing a very different job from RIPE. --Michael Dillon