Agree with Sascha. As with the Allocated PI, in this situation RIPE community would like to impose some policies which are against the most common business practices. It is not efficient as it can at any time be attacked in any civilized justice system. Can anyone bring out some data on the "huge" abuse that took/takes place ? Let's not stop a supposedly abuse by adopting abusive policies.

Ciprian

On Friday, October 21, 2016, Sascha Luck [ml] <apwg@c4inet.net> wrote:
You would do well to take some lessons in debate culture
yourself. You're -not even too veiledly- accusing another member
of abuse, something we have heard altogether too much of lately.

As for 2015-04, I oppose it as it tries yet again to bring M&A
under policy regulation (s. 2.2) which the community has no
business doing. Further, I am fundamentally opposed to the tactic
of including the unpalatable with the desirable.  I would support
2015-04 if it restricted itself to collating transfer policy in
one document without imposing further restrictions.

rgds,
Sascha Luck

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:45:01PM +0200, Havard Eidnes wrote:
What you say could be expressed (again it's a metaphor) like
this:

If you're interested in swaying the opinion in your favour you
would do well by avoiding arguing by using metaphors or colurful
paraphrasing, and instead argue the individual items you
apparently so very much disagree with.

As for the takeovers, it's not that I wouldn't get into
details. My previous employer has acuired probably over 100
other companies. Every case was particular and some took years
to integrate. You can not sell the IPs before integrating
their network.

In all the situations, even when we know there was an
agreement for acquisition of company X, it wasn't absorbed
overnight. The process is complex and involves approvals from
various authorities, integration of the network, migration of
customers and in the end you can draw the line and mark as
unused the as number, IPs, computers, etc.

You conveniently side-stepped answering the case I described.
Note that I wrote "*solely* for the purpose of of getting a
/22...".  In that case there would be no customers to move or
networks to merge.  I would say it is incumbent upon you to
justify that we should keep this loophole as wide as a truck in
the policy.

The 24-month holding period puts a damper on this avenue of
abuse against the intention of the last /8 policy, and would put
a little bit more longevity into the availability of the
resources under that policy.  It may be that this diminishes
your company's prospects of near-future income, to which I would
say that basing your buisness on the abuse of something which is
perceived as a common resource is perhaps not worthy of so much
sympathy?

Regards,

- Håvard