On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 20:12 +0200, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote:
On 1 maj 2006, at 17.43, Gert Doering wrote: [..] I actually agree with Gert. If we for a moment ignores who has the right to a slot in the routing table, I think the entire notion of PI should be abandoned as we have it today. I want holders of address space to have a recurring contact with the RIRs to make sure contact data is accurate and the holder still exists. I further think that all address-space holders should be subject to the same rules. Now, changing the rules for what is already out there does not seem doable, but at least we should change for the future. If PA space policy is broken, let's fix that.
PA is what it says: Provider Address space, thus address space for end-users provided by their provider. These get >/32+ PI is provider independent, and thus for endsites, typically /48's, maybe upto a /44 or so. I would keep them seperate names because of this. Though one could also merge them. The thing is that they will, at some point, pop up both in the routing tables, assuming no other solution arrives, and they are both based on the amount of address space usage. Having the seperate might later on easily allow them to be seperated.
As for who have a right to a slot in my routing table, I think a minimum requirement is that they can be bothered to fulfil the duties as an LIR. If they can't be bothered with that, I can't be bothered to carry their route. So, let's move to a discussion on who should be able to get PA space....
Being LIR makes at least sure that somebody (or a consultant) at the organisation has some RIR clue and most likely also some routing clue. This is already a reasonable financial and work-load barrier. The people who decide on that one gets an entry in the routing table are the folks who accept the route. Not the community. Though one could set a sort of default community policy or so. The IPv4 /24-/32 filtering is not a carved in stone standard either but most ISP's are doing it anyway.
I think being an LIR is a minimum requirement, that includes paying the associated fees.
Ack. And if you can't pay the fees or pay a LIR then you most likely can't pay for proper hardware and maintainance either ;)
The 200 rule is questionable to me, it's arbitrary and more or less impossible to enforce.
The PA 200 is currently more a stopper for very small sites of getting PA space in a /32 chunk which they will never use.
The demand that the space actually be used on the public routable Internet seems good if we could define this clearly.
That would be COMPLETELY silly. It's address space, no routability is guaranteed and then you require it to be routed onto the internet? What do you want, people to announce their space and then blackhole it? ISP's request address space, for what they use it is their right. As long as they actually use the space they requested of course.
Leo told me that the NCC receives approx ~1400 requests a year for IPv4 PI space. I wonder how much of that is going to ISPs becuase it's "cheaper" than PA space...which is a claim that is hard to quantify.
PI is for folks wanting to be independent. Independency is most of the time a bit more expensive. Thus IMHO in very short: - PA policy is for Providers, these provide access to endsites. - PI policy is for Endsites. Pricing should be LIR-fee + annual renenewal depending on the size of the space received. That said RIR's don't say who gets a slot in the routing space and policy should not forbid people getting address space, if it is meant for the internet or for other use. As long as an entity can show the demand for the amount of requested address space and is willing to pay the price they should be able to get it. The routability factor they can guarantee by being cool enough and persuading other ISP's to accept their announcements. Currently (peeing at GRH) that means if you have a /48 it will simply work(tm). This might change over the coming years though, solutions will come... also see my longer message about address space & routing slots on ppml@arin... My couple of rappen... Greets, Jeroen