Scott

In my opinion (as a fellow ARIN AC member) the best way to provide impetus for the needed policy changes in all regions is for RIPE to pass this policy and to demonstrate to the rest of the world that the sky does not fall once needs assessment is put to rest. Since RIPE is in the last /8 policy and thus for its tiny remaining free pool needs assessment is already gone, there is nothing "intermediate" about its status.

Further, I do not understand your argument about "uncomfortable intermediate states" below. How does the absence of needs assessment in the RIPE region have any effect on AFRINIC and LACNIC, which still have free pools and do not allow transfers?  Also, how does it have any effect on ARIN, when under its current policy transfers from ARIN to the RIPE region would not be possible ?

In short, your suggested sequence for liberalization seems to me to get it backwards. None of the larger scale reforms you propose are likely to happen if RIPE doesn't take this first, catalytic step. If it does, the other reforms are far more likely to happen.

From: address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:52 PM
To: address-policy-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Policy Proposal (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)

While I support the goals of 2013-03 in a post-IPv4-depletion world, we are currently in an uncomfortable intermediate state where IPv4 depletion has occurred in some regions (RIPE and APNIC) but not in others (ARIN, LACNIC, and AfriNIC).  I think it will be wise to wait until IPv4 depletion to remove of (at least some) needs requirements in those regions that still have an IPv4 free pool.

As a result of the fact of remaining RIR free pools, and the current policy and sentiment in the ARIN region that inter-RIR IPv4 transfers should occur only to organizations/regions that justify need for the addresses (to avoid a run on said free pool), I think it would be wise to do something like this:

 - First, pass an inter-RIR transfer policy in the RIPE region that is compatible with both the APNIC and ARIN inter-RIR transfer policies (i.e. has some form of needs justification).

 - Second, make sure that RIPE's transfer policy serves all organizations in the RIPE region, including those who in the past got PI space from RIPE.

 - Third, relax the ARIN region's inter-RIR transfer policy such that after IPv4 depletion in the ARIN region, transfers are allowed to regions with policies like 2013-03.

 - Fourth, pass something along the lines of 2013-03 in the RIPE region (to take effect) after IPv4 depletion has occurred in the ARIN region.

 - Fifth, update policy in other regions as well to align policy with the needs of a post-IPv4-depletion world.

I'm more than happy to help drive #3 and eventually #5 in the ARIN region.

-Scott

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:33 AM, <sandrabrown@ipv4marketgroup.com> wrote:

> You can find the full proposal at:
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03
>
> We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to
> <address-policy-wg@ripe.net> before 16 April 2013.

Support.

This goal of 2012-03 was to align the justification period with the
other RIR's who allow inter-RIR transfers.  Tore's proposal 2013-03 will
remove justification altogether, which is what all the RIR's need to do.
 The reason I went with a 24 month justification period in 2012-03 was
because that was the period APNIC and ARIN use.  I was hopeful that this
would align the RIPE such that when transfers to and from those RIR's
were considered, they would be allowed, because the RIPE would have a
"like" policy.

Tore's policy may have the impact of bringing ALL the RIR's into the
current market reality:  that when an entity is paying for IP's, that is
needs justification enough.  There is no hoarding in an unencumbered
market.  RIPE is demonstrating true world leadership here.

Sandra Brown