Goede Iljitsch, iljitsch@muada.com (Iljitsch van Beijnum) wrote:
Which does not mean these networks are unused
I think "not present in the routing table" is a good working definiion of "unused".
Your perspective (and mine - I don't like that either!) is only one of many possible ways to look at the thing.
Is it reasonable for people to keep almost half a percent of the IPv4 address space for themselves just so they don't have to renumber into the space specifically set aside for this?
I think we should refrain from discussing morals here; I believe neither of the people on the list *likes* that there is *legitimately assigned* address space out there that has never been used.
and/or reclaimable. I don't think that is knowable until someone actually tries it.
Since the space has been assigned and/or allocated according to the regulations then effective, there is no legal (is there any at all?) or justifiable way to force those people to give their space back to a RIR. If they do so of their own account, fine; if you want to take the time and make the effort to go there and talk to the Apples, IBMs and HPs of the world, be my guest; I might even help you, because I see a good cause there. I just say - success will be very very limited, if any amount of address space can be "reclaimed" (talked out of people) at all.
If a market does happen, it will be interesting to see how much of that "unreclaimable" address space appears on that market.
That is an entirely different thing. Those people will discover that they have an *asset* they never thought of. And while their ops, networking and community people will try and prevent this from happening, management will ask them for a technical solution to be able to sell this asset, calculate cost/gain ration and *do it*.
Trading address space is going to come, whether we like it or not.
Murder happens too, despite the fact that most of us don't like it. We do what we can to stop it, not because we think we can eradicate it, but because every incremental reduction is worthwhile.
You don't play nuances, do you? Well; in the "civilised western world", people are very unlikely to commit murder, but people are not very inhibited of trading their asset on a market, be it black or white. So take into account human nature outside of problem regions, and then you have a better picture.
If we can get people to use the white market instead of the black market, good.
Why?
Because white market means RIR control. Sorry I didn't make clear that it meant that for me.
Of course, if every DFZ-routing party cooperates with the RIRs and/or routing registries, black markets can be counteracted. But you tell me the odds of that happening ;)
Sometimes all it takes is a filter and some vision. Remember the Sprint prefix length filters?
Yes. Now convince them. If they see a business case, you might even be successful. Apart from those things happening, getting efficient filtering in place that are controlled by entities we as the community trust, will need a common effort. Sorry to spoil your dreams, Elmar.