Shane and all, See my response/remarks interspersed below... Shane Kerr wrote:
Jeffrey,
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 00:13 -0700, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
All,
Seems that all the hub bub regarding IPv4 address space being very limited is really not so. As I and others have advocated for years, reclaiming unused IPv4 space is needed.
See: The most comprehensive scan of the entire internet for several decades http://www.technologyreview.com/web/21528/ shows that millions of allocated addresses simply aren't being used.
Reclaiming unused IPv4 space is very expensive. The RIR system was never designed with reclamation in mind, and fear or selfishness on the part of existing participants has prevented even small moves towards fixing this (see discussions of 2007-01 for more insight).
Sorry I don't except you premise that reclaiming unused IPv4 space is very expensive. Certainly your right that the early on allocation system was grossly ill conceived, I remember I was there and argued frequently with Jon Postel in this area. 2007-01 does not demonstrate the proper time frame for relevant insight.
What this means is, even if the space is available to be reclaimed the costs for getting IPv4 space will be much, much higher than today.
Compared to what time frame, and again why? Simply stating something does not make it so or even reasonable. More justification for this statement is needed.
The idea of a market may help to lower these costs (or not), but the costs will still be there. Any time you see a change in a fundamental resource after decades of relatively low cost, there will be economic upset(*).
I agree very generally with your last sentence here. Not your first, however. Any "Market" where IP address space is auctioned off like a comodity will early on sore in price, than maybe later graduate down or flatten out. But this depends if the "Market" is regulated or not, and if so, how it is regulated, whom is the regulator, and how diligent that or those regulators are to adhering to the yet to be determined regulations by which that "Market" operates under.
When you into a black hole, nothing magical happens when you cross the event horizon. But your situation is very different. Likewise, when the last IPv4 address is allocated from the IANA to an RIR, no immediate catastrophe will happen, but the rules of the game will have changed.
True. But first in this instance, if no reclaiming of IPv4 address space is accomplished, and there is not defined "Market" than the stability of the legacy internet is under siege and ripe, pardon the pun, for mischief. Maybe I should consider a new form of dirivitive, something like an IPvswap and take the IMF up on their graciously termed loan to better market IPv8? >:) At least this way it will be a unregulated market for a while ( several years ), IPv4 address space will become nearly worthless in terms of $$ value, and IPv6 will get a boost in acceptance, while all the while the loan will be eventually paid by large EU IPv4 holders. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
-- Shane
(*) For example: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/rising-gas-pric.html