Hi, On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:53:29PM +0300, Elvis Daniel Velea wrote:
I am surprised to see that you are defending this proposal more than the proposer :)
I'm trying to not side either way, but the poor quality of some of the arguments is annoying me enough to try to counter them.
On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:33, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> [...] (Regarding the DB accuracy, I think Sander has answered this upthread in a way I find convincing: if trading for these /22s is limited, of course someone who trades "under the desk" will not be able to update the registry, so potentially someone else uses the /22 and can not document that. Would I buy a /22 that I can not legally transfer into my LIR? legally?
"according to the rules that govern transfers" - make it "formally" or "contractually" or whatever word you like more.
No, because I'm all at the mercy of the seller - if he closes his LIR, "my" /22 is gone. So I'd go and find a unencumbed /22 on the market - and in my book, this would mean "mission accomplished, trading discouraged")
If things would be so simple...
Look at what's happening in ARIN. Lots of transfers (some very large ones as well) are done by means of financial/contractual artifices (furures contracts and such) avoiding the needs based criteria from the policy. Millions of IPs seem to change hands but the transfer are not recorded in the registry.
While *you* would not trade a 'last allocated' block, it does not mean that these will not trade.
Well, in that case I can only say "I recommend this to all my competitors" - it would be tremendously silly to buy a /22 that can not be registered to my company, and that the NCC *will* request back (= no route objects, no reverse DNS, no inetnums) if the seller's LIR is closed. Someone buying addresses on the market should understand the market they are operating in - and if not, they should hire a broker to make sure that they will get value for their money. [..]
I also do not think it's ok to have a policy change the status of a resource 'in the middle of the game' and think that even if accepted, this proposal should cause a change of status only from the moment it is implemented.
Where was that argument when transfers were initially allowed? Following this argument, we couldn't do any policy changes that affect future actions for pre-existing allocations or assignments. Funny that we could do so in the past just fine. Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279