Shane and all, Again my response/remarks are interspersed below... Shane Kerr wrote:
Jeffrey,
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 03:54 -0700, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
Reclaiming unused IPv4 space is very expensive. The RIR system was never designed with reclamation in mind, and fear or selfishness on the part of existing participants has prevented even small moves towards fixing this (see discussions of 2007-01 for more insight).
Sorry I don't except you premise that reclaiming unused IPv4 space is very expensive.
The current work for allocating IPv4 space is:
* Verify requester needs space * Search the available list for space
To reclaim space, one must do something like:
* Find space one thinks might be available * Figure out the contact for the space * Request the space from said contact * Handle cases where contact is unavailable or uncooperative * "Decontaminate" space for a while (optional but recommended) * Put space on the available list
Someone has to do all of these tasks, and the timelines can be quite long. I am *not* saying it is impossible, only that it is a lot more work than what we have today. And that work is what will make it expensive.
Much of the first two on your list are mostly already known. The forth is easy to handle, expose those that are not cooperating, and deny then further address space, even IPv6 unless or until they do cooperate. These measures cost very little. I have no idea what the fifth in your list costs, but seems to me it would also be very little.
The idea of a market may help to lower these costs (or not), but the costs will still be there. Any time you see a change in a fundamental resource after decades of relatively low cost, there will be economic upset(*).
I agree very generally with your last sentence here. Not your first, however. Any "Market" where IP address space is auctioned off like a comodity will early on sore in price, than maybe later graduate down or flatten out. But this depends if the "Market" is regulated or not, and if so, how it is regulated, whom is the regulator, and how diligent that or those regulators are to adhering to the yet to be determined regulations by which that "Market" operates under.
I do not believe a market will actually solve the shortage problem.
Ok good, thanks for the clarification. I agree that a "Market" will not solve the problem, and in fact stands a better chance of making the problem worse in some ways.
I do believe there already is a market, and it is better to record who is responsible for addresses rather than make an even bigger mess than the current system.
Perhaps but this will not reclaim the vast majority of the unused IPv4 space. Secondly a black market already exists and will flourish if not delt with strictly. Black markets have no regulator, but do have plenty of customers. Ergo the market your seem to suggest will be token at best as it is mainly based on good will. Good will doesn't buy much these days...
-- shane
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