- address-policy-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Ian Johannesen 23 Sep '13

23 Sep '13

Hi all, > We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments > to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 October 2013. +1 for this proposal Best regards, Ian Johannesen

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Re: [address-policy-wg] [policy-announce] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Sonderegger Olaf ABRAXAS INFORMATIK AG 23 Sep '13

23 Sep '13

Hi all. +1. I support this proposal. Best regards, Olaf

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Re: [address-policy-wg] [policy-announce] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Richard Hartmann 23 Sep '13

23 Sep '13

Dear all, I still support this proposal and have the slight hope that this will be the last time I will have to state this. Richard PS: For a unified diff between v2 and v3, see http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/address-policy-wg/2013-August/008155…

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2012-08
by James Blessing 22 Sep '13

22 Sep '13

Support (I seem to deleted the original thread) J -- James Blessing 07989 039 476

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Andy Davidson 22 Sep '13

22 Sep '13

Hi, Marco Schmidt wrote: > We encourage you to read the draft document text and send > any comments to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 > October 2013. Support. Andy

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Fwd: Re: 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by David Farmer 20 Sep '13

20 Sep '13

Sorry this should have went to the list. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 15:21:31 -0500 From: David Farmer <farmer(a)umn.edu> Reply-To: David Farmer <farmer(a)umn.edu> Organization: University of Minnesota To: Tore Anderson <tore(a)fud.no> CC: David Farmer <farmer(a)umn.edu> On 9/20/13 07:27 , Tore Anderson wrote: > Hi Sylvain, ... >> Deregulation + commercial transfer make the ressources governed by sole >> market, which we do not agree with. We consider Ripe NCC should stay in >> its regulation role and not give public ressources away to the private >> sector and market. > > The transfer policy is in place already. If you oppose a commercial > transfer market, 2013-03 is the wrong policy proposal to attack, it is > really 2007-08 you should be going after. You are obfuscating and trivializing Sylvain's objection. He didn't say that he doesn't support the transfer market. He said he doesn't support your "deregulation" of the transfer market, which I interpret as removal of justification of need for transfers. And, yes the transfer market is a reality as of 2007-08, but this proposal does very much change the status quo, that is deregulating the transfer market by removing justification of need for transfers. > On your second point, I would like to stress that 2013-03 version 3 does > ensure that the NCC's distribution of IPv4 address space stays the same > as right now: If you want your last /22, you'll have to use it for > making assignments; and if you're an IXP and want something larger than > a /24, you'll have to demonstrate the operational need for it. > > Also, I think it is worth noting that "giving public resources away" is > and has always been one of the (perhaps "the") primary functions of the > NCC. This is true even when the recipient is a private sector LIR who > might at a later time choose to sell the resource on the IPv4 market. > This is how things are today. 2013-03 does not change it one way or the > other. > > If you want to prohibit private sector entities from being eligible from > receiving resources from the NCC, you are free to submit a proposal that > does just that. If you want to undo 2007-08 and thus retire the IPv4 > market, you are free to submit a proposal that does just that too. But > please leave those topics out of the 2013-03 thread. Again you are obfuscating and trivializing his objection. The RIPE NCC doesn't just "giving public resources away", the primary cost is the justification of those resources. Or, the cost of dealing with the "bureaucracy" that you want to eliminate, that is not free, which is why you want to eliminate it. Please stop obfuscating and trivializing people's objections, you either have sufficient support to ignore their objections or you should address them properly. Thank you. -- ================================================ David Farmer Email: farmer(a)umn.edu Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952 ================================================

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Roger Jørgensen 20 Sep '13

20 Sep '13

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Marco Schmidt <mschmidt(a)ripe.net> wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > Following the feedback received, the draft documents for the proposal > described in 2013-03 (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) > are edited and published. > supported -- Roger Jorgensen | ROJO9-RIPE rogerj(a)gmail.com | - IPv6 is The Key! http://www.jorgensen.no | roger(a)jorgensen.no

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Re: [address-policy-wg] address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4
by Lu Heng 20 Sep '13

20 Sep '13

+1 On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 12:00 PM, <address-policy-wg-request(a)ripe.net>wrote: > Send address-policy-wg mailing list submissions to > address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/address-policy-wg > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > address-policy-wg-request(a)ripe.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > address-policy-wg-owner(a)ripe.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of address-policy-wg digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published > (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) > (Daniel Stolpe) > 2. Re: 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published > (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) > (Bengt G?rd?n) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 10:43:20 +0200 (CEST) > From: Daniel Stolpe <stolpe(a)resilans.se> > Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact > Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and > Cleanup) > To: Randy Bush <randy(a)psg.com> > Cc: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net, policy-announce(a)ripe.net > Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1309201043000.1105(a)server.resilans.se> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2013, Randy Bush wrote: > > >> We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments > >> to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 October 2013. > > > > and once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more > > > > +1 > > +1 > > Cheers, > > Daniel Stolpe > > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 > stolpe(a)resilans.se > Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 > http://www.resilans.se/ > Box 13 054 > 556741-1193 > 103 02 Stockholm > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 11:03:09 +0200 > From: Bengt G?rd?n <bengan(a)resilans.se> > Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact > Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and > Cleanup) > To: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net > Message-ID: <523C0F4D.7060305(a)resilans.se> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > 2013-09-19 21:57, Sascha Luck skrev: > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 09:52:52AM -1000, Randy Bush wrote: > >> and once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more > > > > Damn, I wanted to write that ;p > > > > +1 also > > > > I'm favour of this proposal. > +1 > > /bengan > > > > > End of address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4 > ************************************************ > -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Mikael Abrahamsson 20 Sep '13

20 Sep '13

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013, Marco Schmidt wrote: > We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments > to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 October 2013. I fully support this proposal (as stated before in the discussion some months back). -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Marco Schmidt 19 Sep '13

19 Sep '13

Dear Colleagues, Following the feedback received, the draft documents for the proposal described in 2013-03 (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) are edited and published. The amendments are: - Retain "Fairness" goal - Retain "Need" for final /22 allocations - Clarify criteria for IXP assignment expansions The impact analysis that was conducted for this proposal has also been published. You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03 and the draft document at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03/draft We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 October 2013. Regards, Marco Schmidt Policy Development Office RIPE NCC

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APWG agenda for RIPE 67 (Draft 1)
by Gert Doering 19 Sep '13

19 Sep '13

Hi APWG folks, RIPE meeting orga, below you can find a draft for the RIPE address policy WG meeting's agenda, which will take place in Athens in the following time slots: Wednesday, Oct 16, 09:00 - 10:30 Wednesday, Oct 16, 11:00 - 12:30 If you have anything else you want to see on the agenda, or if we need to change anything, please let us know. The distribution of items to the two timeslot is somewhat subject to the time spent on discussion - but we'll try to stick to what's published. regards, Gert Doering, APWG chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, 09:00-10:30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A. Administrative Matters 5 min (welcome, thanking the scribe, approving the minutes, etc.) B. Current Policy Topics - Ingrid Wijte, NCC RS [15-20 min] - global policy overview "what's going on?" - common policy topics in all regions (end of IPv4, transfers, ...) - overview over concluded proposals in the RIPE region since RIPE66 * 2013-02 Removal of requirement for certification of reallocated IPv4 addresses -> consensus, and implemented - brief overview over new proposals (if any) D. Feedback From NCC Registration Service - Andrea Cima (NCC RS) [15-20 min] F. Discussion of open policy proposals [30-45 min] 2012-02 Policy for Inter-RIR transfers of IPv4 Address Space (update from the chair: where are we, what are the next steps) 2013-03 No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup 2013-05 No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, 11:00-12:30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- F. Discussion of open policy proposals [30-45 min] 2013-06 PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space X. WG Chair Selection Procedure Define a process how the APWG (s)selects it's working group chair(s). (Tentative, if there is no time, this goes to the mailing list) Y. Open Policy Hour "The Open Policy Hour (OPH) is a showcase for your policy ideas. If you have a policy proposal you'd like to debut, prior to formally submitting it, here is your opportunity." Z. AOB

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New AS Number Block allocated to the RIPE NCC
by Ingrid Wijte 10 Sep '13

10 Sep '13

Dear Colleagues, The RIPE NCC has received the following AS Number Block from the IANA in September 2013. 61952-62463 199680-200191 You may want to update your records accordingly. Best regards, Ingrid Wijte Registration Services Assistant Manager RIPE NCC

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Info from the Address Council, regarding AS# allocation by IANA
by Wilfried Woeber 08 Sep '13

08 Sep '13

Dear colleagues, for your information! A while ago the IANA submitted a question regarding the appropriate interpretation of the Global Policy on AS Number Allocation[1]; in particular, whether an allocation needs to be a contiguous block or may be a set of separate ranges, including a portion of the lower value range (legacy 16-bit range). After some discussion, the Address Council agreed (unanimously, in its meeting on June 5th, 2013[2]) on the following resolution: <quote> “The AC answers IANA’s question regarding the allocation of 1024 AS Numbers as follows: There is no requirement in the policy to form the block of 1024 AS Numbers from a contiguous set of numbers, thus allocating from 2 or more different value-ranges is acceptable.” </quote> Best regards, Wilfried [1] https://www.icann.org/en/resources/policy/global-addressing/global-policy-a… http://aso.icann.org/global-policies/ [2] for clerical reasons, the (draft) minutes for the June 5th meeting have only become available in late August, thus the delay in reporting back to the Working Group and community.

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enforcing abuse requests for counterfeit goods, child pornography, etc…
by Yoann Bohbot 29 Aug '13

29 Aug '13

Hi everyone, I have come across over a dozen "hosting" providers that host a slew of sites that are clearly selling illegal items. These "hosting" providers provide a contact address that is not checked, or at least not acted upon. I believe there should be policy enforcing your clients to respond to requests or they can have their ip addresses suspended. Using regular methods of law enforcement is almost useless, and they are not equipped with knowledge or equipment to handle these type of problems (counterfeit goods.) Domain resolutions take months and cost thousands. The only other option is you. Please consider.

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2013-05 New Policy Proposal (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by Emilio Madaio 22 Aug '13

22 Aug '13

Dear Colleagues, A proposed change to RIPE Policy Document ripe-592, "IPv4 Address Allocation and Assignment Policies for the RIPE NCC Service Region", is now available for discussion. You can find the full proposal at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-05/ We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 19 August 2013. Regards Emilio Madaio Policy Development Officer RIPE NCC

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regarding housecleaning efforts in absurdum
by Mikael Abrahamsson 19 Aug '13

19 Aug '13

First and foremost, I must say I am all for keeping the database up to date and making sure all resources are documented correctly. However, I know of at least one specific case where a PI network that was operationally handed over around the year 2000 (MNT object etc), is currently properly documented and the operational holder is willing to do everything needed to become the properly documented holder, but can't, because he can't produce transfer documents by the company initially holding it, because that company doesn't have any operational staff anymore. The staff at the time the PI network was operationally transfered is available, but isn't currently employed by the original company so they can't sign the required paperwork on the original company letterhead. RIPE NCC is now saying they're going to de-register the PI network and reclaim it because transfer documents for the handover done 13 years ago can't be produced. I think this is wrong. There should be some kind of statue of limitation on time for producing documents. The dispute isn't between the original company and the current operational holder, the dispute is solely between RIPE NCC and the current operational holder. What policy documents need to change for this to happen? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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2013-03 Review Period extended until 14 August (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Emilio Madaio 15 Aug '13

15 Aug '13

Dear Colleagues, The Review Period for the proposal 2013-03, "No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup", has been extended until 14 August. You can find the full proposal at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03 We encourage you to review this policy proposal and send your comments to <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Emilio Madaio Policy Development Officer RIPE NCC

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Draft proposal: Guidance Requested: Reassigning Referenced ASNs
by Ingrid Wijte 14 Aug '13

14 Aug '13

Dear colleagues, Thank you for your feedback on this issue. Based on the input we have received we propose taking the following action: - The RIPE NCC will send an email to the maintainer and contacts of the RIPE Database objects in which the returned AS numbers are referenced, asking for the reference to be removed. - The RIPE NCC will send three additional reminders, at intervals of three weeks from each other, for a total of four emails. - If after four emails the reference is still in place, the RIPE NCC will update the RIPE Database object itself, removing the reference. - If the reference is being recreated within one month from deletion (possibly due to automatic updates), the RIPE NCC will contact the organisation through means of communication other than email. The total number of RIPE Database objects that reference returned AS numbers is currently about 2000. All references are in the policy attributes of aut-num objects. No route(6) objects are involved. Thank you again and best regards, Ingrid Wijte RIPE NCC

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2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Clean up)
by Emilio Madaio 12 Aug '13

12 Aug '13

Dear colleagues, The second version of the draft document for the policy proposal 2013-03 has been published, along with an impact analysis carried out by the RIPE NCC. Noteworthy changes in this version include: - Text that suggested contractual requirements are only "recommended" for PI space (section 7.0) has been removed. This text was dependent on previously established context discussing PI vs PA space. As version 1.0 of the proposal removed the PI discussion in the preceding paragraphs, the resulting lack of context made the sentence confusing. The statement was also incorrect, as contractual requirements have been mandatory for PI space since 2007-01 was accepted. - Additional wording has been added to explicitly state that PI space cannot be reassigned or further assigned to other parties (see section 7.0 for ASSIGNED PI). - The third point from the last /8 policy (section 5.1) has been removed, as this is considered a meaningless circular reference by the author. - General re-wording in some sections for improved readability. - The policy proposal 2012-03 has been withdrawn, so the related argument against the proposal has been removed from the rationale. You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03 The draft document can be found at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03/draft We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments to <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 30 July 2013. Regards Emilio Madaio Policy Development Officer RIPE NCC

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Re: [address-policy-wg] [policy-announce] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Clean up)
by Milton Mueller 12 Aug '13

12 Aug '13

I see now why people are confused about the conservation issue. Sylvain, the price in a market is not known in advance. I will be set by competitive bidding and reflect supply and demand. I don't know where you got this 1,75 Euro number or what on earth gives you the idea that the price will remain fixed. As supply diminishes, the price goes up. That creates powerful and effective conservation incentives. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Sylvain Vallerot < sylvain.vallerot(a)opdop.net> wrote: > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 03:45:22PM +0000, Milton L Mueller wrote: > > But if they have to pay a price that reflects the relative scarcity of > the > > resource they have a much stronger incentive to conserve that the > alternative > > situation you describe. "Commercials" cannot simply provide all the > addresses > > their customers want when they cannot replenish their stock without > paying a > > rising price. > > We are talking about 1,75 € per address and per year. > > I guess this wouldn't stop any commercial from reselling to a client who > asks for it, and certainly can pay for it, if conservation is abandonned. > > Best regards, > Sylvain > >

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Guidance Requested: Changing the Status of PI Address Space
by andrea 11 Aug '13

11 Aug '13

Dear colleagues, The RIPE NCC has seen an increase in the number of organisations requesting to change the status of IP addresses from "assigned PI" to "allocated PA". At the Address Policy WG session during RIPE 66, we requested guidance from the RIPE community on what we should do with these requests. Together with the Address Policy WG Chairs, we have decided to seek additional input from the WG mailing list. Background: the requests to turn PI assignments into PA allocations are coming from organisations that received a PI assignment in the past and have since become LIRs. These requests may also come from LIRs that have taken over End User organisations with PI addresses. PA allocations have more flexibility than PI assignments. With the scarcity of IPv4 addresses, organisations are looking to use this space for customer assignments or to transfer it, but are prevented from doing so by the policy for PI addresses. Problem: current RIPE Policy does not address the change in status from assigned PI to allocated PA. At RIPE 66, the RIPE NCC suggested the following potential solutions: A. Allow LIRs to change the status of their PI assignments to PA allocations (if equal or larger than the minimum allocation size) B. Do not allow LIRs to change the status of their PI assignments to PA allocations Please find the RIPE Meeting slides at the following url: https://ripe66.ripe.net/presentations/176-Address_Policy_WG_RIPE_66.pdf Thank you in advance for your feedback Andrea Cima RIPE NCC

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2013-03: Summary of amendments for version 3.0
by Tore Anderson 07 Aug '13

07 Aug '13

Hi APWG, As you all know, during the Review phase a couple of potentially problematic issues in the proposal was brought up, which I've offered to improve on by amending the proposal. I want to detail the individual amendments and how they impact the proposal, so that you can all review them before we send the new version of the proposal back to the NCC. I welcome your opinions on the amendments, but please also realise it is not an invitation to bikeshedding - I'm trying to find a middle ground the WG will find acceptable, not necessarily perfect. In doing so I hope that we can ensure that we won't be sending Emilio off on a wild goose chase when we ask him to create a new Impact Analysis - so if you are completely unable to live with any of this, then do speak now or forever hold your peace. I'd like to especially thank Filiz Yilmaz and Malcom Hutty for highlighting and elaborating on the issues that resulted in the first two amendments, and to Andrea, Emilio, and Marco from the NCC for collaborating with me on writing the texts of the last two amendments and confirming that there will be no misunderstandings as to their intent and interpretation. Amendment 1: Retain "Fairness" goal =================================== This amendment retains our community's overall philosophical and moral goal of fair distribution of IPv4 address space to end users operating networks. Our current IPv4 policy lumps together a "Fairness" and a "Conservation" goal (unlike our IPv6 policy, which separates the two). Seeking only to remove the latter, the current version of 2013-03 accidentally removed the former as well. The amendment makes no attempt to define what constitutes "fair distribution" in our current environment of scarcity - this will remain a value judgement each LIR has to make for themselves, just like it is today. The benefits of this amendment include: * Avoids throwing the baby out with the bathwater. * Guides LIRs to assign address space to end users who are operating networks, as well as to base any value judgement they would need to make related to this on their own notion of fairness. * Ensures that we keep the door open for a potential future discussion on how to define and possibly enforce fair distribution in an environment of scarcity. * Provides "ammunition" for the NCC in their talks and interactions with critical governments, regulators, or similar entities. The exact amendment, which is to be inserted into section 3.0 of the proposed policy, reads: «Fairness: Public IPv4 address space must be fairly distributed to the End Users operating networks.» Note that except for the title, this is the exact same phrase as is found in our current policy. This is fully intentional, as 2013-03 has no ambition to alter previously agreed upon consensus in this regard. I chose the title "Fairness" to match the one used in the IPv6 policy document (ripe-589). Amendment 2: Retain "Need" for final /22 allocations ==================================================== This amendment retains the current practice of requiring the LIRs that seek to obtain their final /22 from the austerity ("last /8") allocation pool to use it for making assignments to their end users or their own infrastructure. This is not in conflict with 2013-03's "No Need" moniker, as changing the "last /8 policy" is not its ambition. That the current version of the proposal does so was only due to a layer of indirection, in which the "last /8" policy made a reference to the "old policy" which 2013-03 did remove as part of its overall clean-up efforts. In practical terms, the amendment will result in a "check box" or a "yes/no" question in the allocation request form, where LIRs would be required to declare this to be their intent in order to receive the allocation. This interpretation has been confirmed by the NCC. The benefits of this amendment include: * Ensures our RIR-to-LIR allocation policy remains pursuant to the "Fairness" goal described in amendment 1. * Avoids any confusion leading to an impression that 2013-03 would make the RIPE NCC start to "sell IPv4 addresses". This in turn leads to the following benefits: -- Alleviates concerns that the RIPE NCC may lose its status as a non-profit membership association with the Dutch tax authorities, -- Shields the NCC from some of the legal concerns and impacts noted in the current Impact Analysis' EU Competition Law report, -- Provides "ammunition for the NCC in their talks and interactions with critical governments, regulators, or similar entities. * Ensures the proposed policy remains as much in line with RFC 2050bis' Allocation Pool Management goal as our current policy is. * Prevents LIRs from obtaining their last /22 for other purposes than "networking"; in particular re-sale, stockpiling, or hoarding. This amendment reads as follows, and is to be inserted as a new bullet point in the proposed policy's section 5.1: «The LIR must confirm it will make assignment(s) from the allocation» Amendment 3: Clarify criteria for IXP assignment expansions =========================================================== The NCC noted in its Impact Analysis for the current version of the proposal that the precise criteria for when an IXP may request an expansion of its peering LAN assignment from "last /8 IXP assignments" was lost and thus left undefined. This was unintentional and happened due to the exact same "layer of indirection" problem described above. As 2013-03 has no ambition to change the "last /8 policy", including the parts specific to IXPs, and the proposed amendment seeks only to document and uphold the status quo. The argument in favour of this amendment is of course to ensure we continue to provide the NCC and its hostmasters with clear guidance on how our policies should be implemented. The amendment will be inserted into section 6.1, replacing the fourth bullet point, and reads as follows: «New IXPs will be assigned a /24. Should they require a larger assignment, they must return their current assignment (or existing PI used as an IXP peering LAN) and receive a replacement /23 or /22. After one year the utilisation of the new assignment must be at least 50%, unless special circumstances are defined» The RIPE NCC has confirmed that this text accurately describes today's practice, and that it will merely uphold the current status quo. The amendments are also attached in unified diff format. Best regards, Tore Anderson

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Clean up)
by David Farmer 05 Aug '13

05 Aug '13

On 8/4/13 09:59 , bmanning(a)vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > Pragmatically, there is zero chance of verification of operational need > for anything larger than a /96 in IPv6 space.... So the rules for v6 > allocation actually are fairly close to the original v4 allocation policies. I disagree, /64 is easily justified by how the protocols are defined, so is a /56 and probably a /48 for a business customer. You may want to argue if the protocols should have been defined to use a whole /64 for a single Ethernet. But that is not an RIR policy question, that is an IETF protocol question. The RIR's have to work with the protocols as the IETF defines them. I'm not saying you are necessary wrong, just that this isn't the forum. > The concept of verified operational need arose in times of scarcity, when > there was -no- other option. Again I disagree, if you wanted a Class A or B you needed to justify the request, it was relatively easy by comparison for sure. And if you wanted more you had to explain what you did with the ones you had. But justification didn't just come in with conservation or scarcity, it always been there, what has changed is the standards for the justification. I'm not stuck on the current standards for justification, but eliminating both "operational need" and any concept of "fairness" to replace it is an issue for me. -- ================================================ David Farmer Email: farmer(a)umn.edu Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952 ================================================

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Policy proposal 2013-03
by alain.bidron＠orange.com 31 Jul '13

31 Jul '13

I object to the policy proposal 2013-03 2013- No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Clean up. I will not reiterate the arguments developed by Michele during the meeting in Dublin and on this list, and those clearly explained by Malcom. I agree with both of them. This proposal is in no way a post depletion adjustment, and clean up, it would dramatically change the basic principle in IPv4 management and would have a very strong impact on local management. Rather than simplifying the local management, it would make it even more difficult as the core principle is that existing and future assignments are based on needs. If this core principle is not part of the consistent set of policies to be applied by the LIRs, any management decision at local level would be questionable. We introduce here some instability, with potential impact on LIRs responsibilities. On the political side the consequences would also be quite problematic. Regards. Alain _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.

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Assignment window vs allocated space vs "bought" IP space?
by Roger Jørgensen 29 Jul '13

29 Jul '13

Earlier today a friend with a new LIR got confused by assignment window (21) vs allocated address space (/22). That trigged another question for me. If that LIR somehow got their hand on another /20 from somewhere that is not RIPE, does the same assignment window apply to that /20 ? Or how does AW apply to bought/transferred address space? -- Roger Jorgensen | ROJO9-RIPE rogerj(a)gmail.com | - IPv6 is The Key! http://www.jorgensen.no | roger(a)jorgensen.no

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