- address-policy-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-06 New Policy Proposal (PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space)
by Tore Anderson 14 Oct '13

14 Oct '13

So I spent my time in the air en route to Athens today reading through 2013-06 again, and have some more comments - one significant, the rest editorial. Significant first. Section 5.3.1: says «When more than a /48 is to be sub-allocated to the same customer, the LIR or the End User (via the Sponsoring LIR) must request an approval from the RIPE NCC.» Before, NCC approval was only mandatory for assignments shorter than a /48 per *End Site*. So if I'm reading the proposed policy correct, a customer that has >1 sites would need NCC approval if he wanted a /48 for each of them. I don't think we should do that. Editorial improvements (please keep in mind though that I'm not a native English speaker so my «gut feeling» about these may well be completely wrong and should be ignored): Section 5.6.2: «These assignments have been transformed automatically by the RIPE NCC in IPv6 allocations.» - "transformed" -> "converted" - "in" -> "to" Section 5.6.2: «End Users holding an allocation lower than a /32» - "an allocation" -> "allocations" - "lower" -> "smaller" Tore

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Sebastian Wiesinger 14 Oct '13

14 Oct '13

* Marco Schmidt <mschmidt(a)ripe.net> [2013-09-19 16:48]: > > Dear Colleagues, > > Following the feedback received, the draft documents for the proposal > described in 2013-03 (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) > are edited and published. I support this proposal. Regards Sebastian -- GPG Key: 0x93A0B9CE (F4F6 B1A3 866B 26E9 450A 9D82 58A2 D94A 93A0 B9CE) 'Are you Death?' ... IT'S THE SCYTHE, ISN'T IT? PEOPLE ALWAYS NOTICE THE SCYTHE. -- Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant

9 10

Re: [address-policy-wg] New Policy Proposal (PI - PA Transfer)
by Dmitriy Zemlyanoy 10 Oct '13

10 Oct '13

We also support PI to PA changing. Пользователь Andrea Cima <andrea(a)ripe.net> писал: > >Dear colleagues, Following the increasing number of requests from LIRs that want to convert their PI assignments into PA allocations, we proposed the following options at RIPE 66: 1) Allow LIRs to change the status of their PI assignments into PA allocations (if equal or larger than the minimum allocation size) 2) Do not allow LIRs to change the status of their PI assignments into PA allocations After RIPE 66, the discussion was continued on the Address Policy Working Group Mailing List. There seemed to be a lot of support for allowing LIRs to change the status of their resources, but people also wanted the minimum allocation size to be disregarded. This would allow for PA allocations smaller than the minimum allocation size. It is our understanding that this last point would require a policy change. We will be addressing this as part of our "Feedback From RIPE NCC Registration Services" presentation at RIPE 67. Based on the feedback we receive from here, we will work with the Working Group Chairs on a way forward. Kind regards, Andrea Cima RIPE NCC >On 10/9/13 1:34 AM, ksyu(a)netassist.ua wrote: > >Hello everybody > >I would like to draw attention of the public to the next moment . >According to the RIPE policy, a PI network should be used only as it was assigned. However, the time comes, the amount of clients increases, the number of services is growing up, and v4 addresses are not assigned any more. >What should provider do in this case? The network was assigned for the particular service and can't be used for other services? Just returned back . But no one in their right mind will do this ) . >It may be a topical solution for this situation - to return the opportunity to transfer PI blocks into the PA? >This will give the opportunity to breathe more freely, not to violate the rules of RIPE policy . >I suggest to discuse the question of transference of PI blocks to PA, and invite all caring to speak on the matter. > > >  Best regards, Kseniya Sokol >

1 0

New Policy Proposal (PI - PA Transfer)
by ksyu＠netassist.ua 10 Oct '13

10 Oct '13

Hello everybody I would like to draw attention of the public to the next moment . According to the RIPE policy, a PI network should be used only as it was assigned. However, the time comes, the amount of clients increases, the number of services is growing up, and v4 addresses are not assigned any more. What should provider do in this case? The network was assigned for the particular service and can't be used for other services? Just returned back . But no one in their right mind will do this ) . It may be a topical solution for this situation - to return the opportunity to transfer PI blocks into the PA? This will give the opportunity to breathe more freely, not to violate the rules of RIPE policy . I suggest to discuse the question of transference of PI blocks to PA, and invite all caring to speak on the matter. Best regards, Kseniya Sokol

10 15

RIPE Policy Proposal 2012-07 - Effect on ripe-592
by Marco Schmidt 10 Oct '13

10 Oct '13

Dear colleagues, We just published a new version of RIPE Policy Proposal 2012-07, “RIPE NCC Services to Legacy Internet Resource Holders” to the RIPE NCC Services Working Group mailing list. One aspect of this policy proposal is that it contains a small amendment to the existing policy document ripe-592, "IPv4 Address Allocation and Assignment Policies for the RIPE NCC Service Region". Policy Proposal 2012-07 proposes to replace section 5.5 of ripe-592, currently: "Any LIR is allowed to re-allocate complete or partial blocks of IPv4 address space that were previously allocated to them by either the RIPE NCC or the IANA." with "Any LIR is allowed to re-allocate complete or partial blocks of IPv4 address space that were previously allocated to them by the RIPE NCC or otherwise through the Regional Internet Registry System." This change is proposed to ensure that RIPE Policy Proposal 2012-07 is in alignment with ripe-592. If RIPE Policy Proposal 2012-07 is accepted by the RIPE community, it would result in a new policy for legacy Internet resources and a small change to the the existing RIPE Policy ripe-592. As an existing policy would be impacted by this policy proposal, we would like to notify the Address Policy Working Group. You can find the full policy proposal at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2012-07 If you wish to participate on the discussion, then we encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to <ncc-services-wg(a)ripe.net> by 8 November 2013. Regards, Marco Schmidt Policy Development Office RIPE NCC

1 0

2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Ronny Boesger [ISPpro Internet KG] 09 Oct '13

09 Oct '13

we support 2013-03 also +1 best regards, ronny -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards, Ronny Boesger --- ISPpro Internet KG Lahnsteiner Strasse 7 07629 Hermsdorf Germany

4 4

Fwd: Clean up of old ASN references in the RIPE Database
by Denis Walker 09 Oct '13

09 Oct '13

Dear colleagues, A first batch of emails has now been sent out for this project. Regards, Denis Walker Business Analyst RIPE NCC Database Team -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Clean up of old ASN references in the RIPE Database Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 12:12:21 +0200 From: Denis Walker <denis(a)ripe.net> Organization: RIPE NCC To: ncc-announce(a)ripe.net Dear colleagues, The RIPE NCC is starting to clean up references to returned AS Numbers in the RIPE Database, as discussed on the Address Policy Working Group Mailing List. The first batch of emails will be sent out today to the maintainers of the referencing objects. For details please see https://labs.ripe.net/Members/denis/making-more-16-bit-as-numbers-available Regards, Denis Walker Business Analyst RIPE NCC Database Team

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-06 New Policy Proposal (PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space)
by Gert Doering 09 Oct '13

09 Oct '13

Dear AP WG, On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 04:36:24PM +0200, Marco Schmidt wrote: > You can find the full proposal at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-06 This is "the big IPv6 revolution thing" I promised you somewhat over two years ago :-) - unification of PA and PI into "just numbers, no colours". As I never found time to actually write the specific policy document, it stalled, until these three brave volunteers took over and spent *quite* some amount of discussion and word-smithing to come up with what should be a much easier and cleaner IPv6 policy, without changing the underlying spirit ("who needs addresses gets some"), but removing some of the artificial strings ("addresses of this colour must not be used to do X, for that, you need more expensive ones"). It's a big change, and it's radical, but it's what you asked for when being presented with the idea :-) Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

19 77

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-05 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by Elvis Daniel Velea 08 Oct '13

08 Oct '13

Hello, I agree with this policy change proposal. Regards, Elvis On 9/30/13 3:22 PM, Marco Schmidt wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > The draft document for the proposal described in 2013-05, > "No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers" > has been published. The impact analysis that was conducted for this > proposal has also been published. > > > You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-05 > > and the draft document at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-05/draft > > We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments > to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 29 October 2013. > > Regards > > Marco Schmidt > Policy Development Office > RIPE NCC > > -- V4Escrow, LLC

2 1

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Milton L Mueller 03 Oct '13

03 Oct '13

I believe that the revisions address the only valid objections that were aired in discussions and am willing to support the revised policy 2013-3 (No need: Post Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) -----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg-bounces(a)ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Marco Schmidt Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:45 AM To: policy-announce(a)ripe.net Cc: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) Dear Colleagues, Following the feedback received, the draft documents for the proposal described in 2013-03 (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup) are edited and published. The amendments are: - Retain "Fairness" goal - Retain "Need" for final /22 allocations - Clarify criteria for IXP assignment expansions The impact analysis that was conducted for this proposal has also been published. You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03 and the draft document at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03/draft We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 October 2013. Regards, Marco Schmidt Policy Development Office RIPE NCC

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Anfinsen, Ragnar 03 Oct '13

03 Oct '13

Apologies for a very late +1 MVH/Best Regards Ragnar > -----Original Message----- > From: address-policy-wg-bounces(a)ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg- > bounces(a)ripe.net] On Behalf Of Marco Schmidt > Sent: 19. september 2013 16:45 > To: policy-announce(a)ripe.net > Cc: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net > Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact > Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and > Cleanup) > > > Dear Colleagues, > > Following the feedback received, the draft documents for the proposal > described in 2013-03 (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and > Cleanup) > are edited and published. > > The amendments are: > > - Retain "Fairness" goal > > - Retain "Need" for final /22 allocations > > - Clarify criteria for IXP assignment expansions > > > The impact analysis that was conducted for this proposal has also been > published. > > > You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03 > > and the draft document at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03/draft > > We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments > to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 October 2013. > > Regards, > > Marco Schmidt > Policy Development Office > RIPE NCC > >

1 0

RFC7020: The Internet Numbers Registry System
by Hans Petter Holen 02 Oct '13

02 Oct '13

In August the IETF published RFC7020 "" The Internet Numbers Registry System" as a replacement for RFC2050. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7020 A question came up at today's Address Council call today: - "Does any of the global or regional policies need review following this?" I assume not - but it could be good to have the wg participants thoughts on this too. -- Hans Petter Holen Mobile +47 45 06 60 54 | hph(a)oslo.net | http://hph.oslo.net

7 11

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-05 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by Richard Hartmann 02 Oct '13

02 Oct '13

+1 Sent by mobile; excuse my brevity.

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-05 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by sandrabrown＠ipv4marketgroup.com 01 Oct '13

01 Oct '13

> The draft document for the proposal described in 2013-05, > "No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers" > has been published. The impact analysis that was conducted for this > proposal has also been published. +1. Sandra Brown

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-05 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by Tore Anderson 01 Oct '13

01 Oct '13

+1 Tore

2 1

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-05 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by Jan Ingvoldstad 01 Oct '13

01 Oct '13

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Marco Schmidt <mschmidt(a)ripe.net> wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > The draft document for the proposal described in 2013-05, > "No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers" > has been published. The impact analysis that was conducted for this > proposal has also been published. > > > You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-05 > Ah, excellent. This changed turned out just as well-formulated as I hoped, and the impact analysis matched my expectations. What's not to like? :) +1 -- Jan

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-05 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by Donal Cunningham 01 Oct '13

01 Oct '13

> The draft document for the proposal described in 2013-05, > "No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers" > has been published. The impact analysis that was conducted for this > proposal has also been published. +1. D. Airspeed Telecom

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-06 New Policy Proposal (PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space)
by Richard Hartmann 30 Sep '13

30 Sep '13

Dear all, I support the general direction of this proposal. If it included v4, I would still be in favor. That being said, I am not sure about the prefix sizes listed in this proposal. According to section 5.1.2 of the new text, everyone will receive at least a /32 unless the addresses will be used for a special purpose as per section 6. In this case, allocations can be made in allocations of /48: * Operating a TLD: 1-4 * /48 * Operating an ENUM: 1-4 * /48 * Operating an IXP: 1 * /48 * Operating a DNS root server: 1 * /32 There are three concerns with this: 1) Assuming everyone will get at least a /32, why limit core internet infrastructure, i.e. TLDs, ENUMs, and IXPs to a mere /48? The combined amount of those allocations will be dwarfed by the combined amount of LIRs and End Users. 2) While there are a _lot_ of addresses with IPv6, handing a multi-homed End User who will be able to operate on a single /48 for the foreseeable future a whole /32 appears to be wasteful. Maybe that's v4 speaking through me, but still... 3) Becoming a LIR costs several thousand Euros up front and then per year. Not being a LIR and simply getting the same /32 will, under current pricing schemes, cost €50. Becoming a LIR would become an extremely stupid business move over night. This means the existing LIRs will be stuck with paying whatever price increases happen over the years. That, in turn, means LIRs will start trying to redistribute the cost. And _that_ will become ugly very quickly. I am not saying my suggested answers are perfect, but my gut feeling tells me that while the distinction between "this is PA, hand it to your customers" and "this is PI, don't you dare using it for anyone but yourself" does not make sense, there should still be a distinction between "we need a few v6 addresses" and "we need a lot v6 addresses". Two possible approaches: * Non-LIR allocations could be limited to a single aggregated equivalent of, e.g. a /40 or /41. If someone needed more, let them become a LIR. * Do away with the flat fee of €50 per Independent Number Resource and charge based on size. This would also somewhat prevent people from grabbing as much IP space as possible. As an aside, reading [1] is needlessly hard. There are several sections where text on the left-hand side does not appear on the right-hand side. New text on the right-hand side is marked in blue; disappearing text on the left-hand side is not marked in any way. This is yet another reminder of why migrating to plain text with an automated storage and diffing back-end ASAP will be a Good Thing. Richard [1] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/other-documents/draft-ipv6-address-allocatio…

5 7

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Sylvain Vallerot 30 Sep '13

30 Sep '13

Hi all, Unfortunately we do not support this new proposal, because conservation still is a goal to us, as IPv4 public ressource keeps being vital for many structures. Deregulation + commercial transfer make the ressources governed by sole market, which we do not agree with. We consider Ripe NCC should stay in its regulation role and not give public ressources away to the private sector and market. Moreover, the rationale "supporting arguments" list doesn't convince us at all, let me be more explicit : 1. reduced bureaucracy : I do not consider proper use of ressources and justification as just "bureaucracy" but as a necessity to take good care 2. for long-term business planning: from 2 year to infinity ? is this serious, we are talking about IPv4 here ? 3. Makes the policy easier to read and understand are we stupid or something ? 4. Removes conflict between "conservation" and "aggregation" this cannot be a supporting argument, one does not just suppress a criteria to ease the problem 5. LIR Audits becomes less time-consuming properly made documentation should not take time to show for LIRs, and Ripe does not expect time spared for itself on the other side 6. Reduction of RIPE NCC workload or not : see impact analysis part C, that says no workload nor financial benefit is to be expected in the Ripe NCC. 7. Elimination of incentive to "game the system". supress rules so no ones will cheat them ? this is nonsense. 8. Makes IPv4 and IPv6 policies more similar in practise IPv4 and IPv6 are not similar, why should policies be ? Unfortunately counter-arguments have been provided for each "con" arguments. I deeply regret it was not done for "pro" arguments because many (above) do not resist a tiny bit of attention. Eventually, it was not mentionned (despite this was discussed previously) that the disappearance of the conservation goal could stop the unused space collection, thus artificially accelerating the depletion and its disastrous effects for some little structures. Best regards, Sylvain Vallerot

17 45

2013-05 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers)
by Marco Schmidt 30 Sep '13

30 Sep '13

Dear colleagues, The draft document for the proposal described in 2013-05, "No Restrictions on End User Assignments in Intra-RIR Transfers" has been published. The impact analysis that was conducted for this proposal has also been published. You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-05 and the draft document at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-05/draft We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 29 October 2013. Regards Marco Schmidt Policy Development Office RIPE NCC

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-06 New Policy Proposal (PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space)
by NEUCKENS Marc (NEO/IPR) 26 Sep '13

26 Sep '13

I agree with this policy. Current ipv6 policy pushes entreprises to becoming LIR just to obtain a workable assignment. ________________________________ ***** Disclaimer ***** http://www.belgacom.be/maildisclaimer

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-06 New Policy Proposal (PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space)
by Richard Hartmann 26 Sep '13

26 Sep '13

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Marco Schmidt <mschmidt(a)ripe.net> wrote: > You can find the full proposal at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-06 Somewhat off topic, but the links on that page point to i.e. [1] which redirects towards the generic search interface instead of displaying the expected documents. If RIPE NCC itself makes that honest mistake... This is part of what's being addressed on ncc-services-wg as of right now [2], [3]. I can't say if I am for or against the actual proposal, yet. Richard [1] https://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-589/ [2] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2013-September/0025… [3] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2013-September/0025…

2 1

2013-06 New Policy Proposal (PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space)
by Marco Schmidt 26 Sep '13

26 Sep '13

Dear colleagues, A proposed change to RIPE Documents ripe-589, "IPv6 Address Allocation and Assignment Policy", ripe-451, "IPv6 Address Space Policy For Internet Exchange Points" and ripe-233, "IPv6 Addresses for Internet Root Servers In The RIPE Region" is now available for discussion. You can find the full proposal at: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-06 We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 25 October 2013. Regards Marco Schmidt Policy Development Office RIPE NCC

1 0

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by sandrabrown＠ipv4marketgroup.com 25 Sep '13

25 Sep '13

+1 ..... I support this proposal. Best Regards, Sandra Brown

5 5

Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
by Randy Bush 24 Sep '13

24 Sep '13

> We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments > to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 18 October 2013. and once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more +1

8 7