September 2012 - address-policy-wg

RIPE 553 & last /8 <-> Anycast assignments
by Carsten Schiefner 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

All - as I have just discussed this privately with a colleague: is it the case that as a side effect of section 5.6 "Use of last /8 for PA Allocations" of RIPE 553: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-553#-----use-of-last-8-for-pa-allocatio… there won't be any more Anycast assignments following section 6.9 "Anycasting TLD and Tier 0/1 ENUM Nameservers" of this policy: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-553#-----anycastying-tld-and-tier-1-enu… either? As such 'Assignments for authoritative TLD or ENUM Tier 0/1 DNS lookup services are subject to the policies described in the RIPE Document entitled "Contractual Requirements for Provider Independent Resource Holders in the RIPE NCC Service Region"' as this section states. I tried various ways of interpretation, but failed to come to terms eventually. Any hints, anyone? Thanks and best, Carsten

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Re: [address-policy-wg] [policy-announce] 2012-04 New Draft Document Published (PI Assignments from the last /8)
by Erik Bais 17 Sep '12

17 Sep '12

Dear Emilio & Nick, Thanks for the update on the proposal. I would like to state that I'm not in favor of this policy change. Obviously it is very appealing to open up the last /8 also for end-user assignments, even with the additions of limiting only to a /24 max. But I'm afraid that there will be a run on the last possible addresses and that there won't be any IP space left for new LIR's if they require it. ( Do I even dare to state anything about routing table explosion because of it ? ) For me this is a no-go policy change. IPv4 is over in a couple weeks in the RIPE region. Let's move on. Regards, Erik Bais

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Re: [address-policy-wg] Revert Run Out Fairly after IPv4 depletion
by Hank Nussbacher 14 Sep '12

14 Sep '12

> > Dear Colleagues > > > > A proposed change to RIPE Document ripe-553, "IPv4 Address Allocation > > and Assignment Policy for the RIPE NCC Service Region", is now > > available for discussion. > > > > > > You can find the full proposal at: > > > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2012-06 > >I see the noble goal of this proposal - but why bother? Do we have even >enough time for this proposal to become valid policy change according to >all valid rules of PDP? > >http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/ipv4-exhaustion/ipv4-available-po… > >According to this graph we have one month to go. > >Cheers, Jan Zorz Reading over http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2012-06 Revert "Run Out Fairly" after IPv4 depletion 5.0 states "As of 1 July 2011, the RIPE NCC will start allocating enough address space to LIRs to meet their needs for a period of up to three months." Can someone explain to me how these two recent allocations fit into this rule (extracted from the delegated file): ripencc|IR|ipv4|5.112.0.0|1048576|20120629|allocated ripencc|IR|ipv4|5.208.0.0|1048576|20120904|allocated -Hank

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2012-05 New Policy Proposal (Transparency in Address Block Transfers)
by McTim 14 Sep '12

14 Sep '12

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Emilio Madaio <emadaio(a)ripe.net> wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > A proposed change to RIPE Document ripe-553, "IPv4 Address Allocation > and Assignment Policies for the RIPE NCC Service Region", is now > available for discussion. Besides publishing a list of v4 resources that have been moved, what does this accomplish that sub-allocations don't already do? Is the recipient LIR charged according to the resources under their registry file? -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel

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Re: [address-policy-wg] Revert "Run Out Fairly" after IPv4 depletion
by Hamed Shafaghi 14 Sep '12

14 Sep '12

Hi, Now I’m seeking for at least /14 IPv4 space for inter-RIR transfer, if anybody know company that have This size (Or not less than /15) please inform me, this is critical request. -- I Hamed Shafaghi I I Managing Director I I Skydsl® Telecom I hamed(a)skydsl.ir I www.skydsl.ir I

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Re: [address-policy-wg] Now that final /8 policy may be in action ...
by Hamed Shafaghi 14 Sep '12

14 Sep '12

It’s a shame, a company with fraudulent methods receive 1 million IP address for next three months but my company after giving all requested statics will receive /22 subnet instead of at least /14 subnet!!! On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Martin Millnert <millnert(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Hamed, > > Yes, it's a lottery! > > Sorry that you didn't win. > > I didn't either, tried to get a PI out. :) But didn't get it. > > Best, > Martin > > On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 18:47 +0430, Hamed Shafaghi wrote: > > It’s a shame, a company with fraudulent methods receive 1 million IP > > address for next three months but my company after giving all > > requested statics will receive /22 subnet instead of at least /14 > > subnet!!! > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Martin Millnert <millnert(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 15:56 +0200, Tore Anderson wrote: > > > The delegated-ripencc-extended-latest shows which blocks > > were free at the start of the day, then it's just a matter of > > some whois queries to figure out the rest. > > > > > > Right now it seems 128.0.107.0-128.0.111.255 are still free, > > plus those five /24s out of 192/8 I listed earlier. And maybe > > those /25+es (didn't check as I'm on the road at the moment). > > So it's pretty much all gone now. > > > > > > Tore > > > > > > Right, as per the announcements [1][2] as well, we're > > officially in > > final /8 land now, and IPRAs ran the "available pool" down to > > the > > ground. > > > > So, somewhere between 35-60M EUR locked up for the RIPE NCC > > now, from > > one-shot-LIRs, with current policy. Does the RIPE NCC need all > > this > > money or will that complicate things, especially w.r.t IPv4 as > > an asset > > issues? Or does it matter what we do? > > > > IPv4 just became an asset in this land regardless. :-) > > > > Best, > > Martin > > > > [1] > > > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2012-September/000615.h… > > [2] > > > https://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/ripe-ncc-begins-to-allocate… > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > I Hamed Shafaghi I > > I Managing Director I > > > > I Skydsl® Telecom I hamed(a)skydsl.ir I www.skydsl.ir I > > > -- I Hamed Shafaghi I I Managing Director I I Skydsl® Telecom I hamed(a)skydsl.ir I www.skydsl.ir I

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Re: [address-policy-wg] Now that final /8 policy may be in action ...
by Tore Anderson 14 Sep '12

14 Sep '12

The delegated-ripencc-extended-latest shows which blocks were free at the start of the day, then it's just a matter of some whois queries to figure out the rest. Right now it seems 128.0.107.0-128.0.111.255 are still free, plus those five /24s out of 192/8 I listed earlier. And maybe those /25+es (didn't check as I'm on the road at the moment). So it's pretty much all gone now. Tore Richard Hartmann <richih.mailinglist(a)gmail.com>: On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Tore Anderson <tore.anderson(a)redpill-linpro.com> wrote: > The IPRAs are most definitively at work today. At the time of writing, > only the following prefixes are, as far as I can tell, still available: Are you trawling the RIPE db or how did you arrive at that conclusion? We (#networker) would really like to know. -- Richard

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Now that final /8 policy may be in action ...
by Martin Millnert 14 Sep '12

14 Sep '12

Hi, I'm looking at https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/tools-for-lirs/repons… and jump to the conclusion that we're now in final /8 policy land, and IPRAs are out drinking. Whether this conclusion is indeed correct is irrelevant, we at close of business yesterday had 830k remaining addresses above final /8,/13. For those that are not clear on the policy on when final /8 will get enacted, the answer is: as soon as a request is approved that will run into final /8 space to fulfill (ie. minimum a /12, today), final /8 policy will get triggered *before* this allocation is made, and the requestor in question gets the first /22 from the final /8 (if PA request) otherwise nothing (if PI). (consensus from an IRC channel) With that out of the way, there are then no more PI allocations. Ever. (Well, until policy changes.) The result is now that the established market price for an IP address in the RIPE service region is $signup_fee + $first_period / /22, or 1024 addresses. That's roughly ~2.3 EUR / IPv4 address now in Q3, soon Q4. Will go up Q1 next year. (Adjust for my misunderstanding on what the minimum cost is here) This equates to roughly 35M EUR now heading RIPE's way. The question is: Is this a good thing? This will go faster than many anticipated with the current policy. The reason it will go fast is simply along the lines of the following example: Company X wants IPv4; their ordinary LIR (mothership) now simply applies for new-LIR in Company X name, gets a valid minimum alloc, and then just transfers this back to the mothership and new-LIR is retired ASAP. Adjust for shell-companies, etc, and the direct exchange of Money vs IPv4 addresses between RIPE NCC and the "market" has been fast. The only thing I'm not sure on here, which basically only affects the per-IPv4 price, is what the minimum cost of signing-up and then retiring a new LIR is. Should it *not* be a good thing to transfer 35M EUR to the RIPE NCC in max ~1 year time, we could just allow PI again and just be done with this whole thing. Best, Martin

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2012-04 New Draft Document Published (PI Assignments from the last /8)
by Tore Anderson 12 Sep '12

12 Sep '12

* Emilio Madaio > The draft document for the proposal described in 2012-04 has been > published. The impact analysis that was conducted for this proposal > has also been published In principle, I support this proposal. Reserving the last /8 to the «LIR clique» is unfair to End Users who are not LIRs, but who may very well have an equally justifiable demand for IPv4 addresses as any LIR. In fact, I feel that the proposal does not go far enough - in my opinion, both LIRs and End Users should be able to get the same amount of address space from the last /8. I note that in the APNIC region, LIRs and End Users can both get up to a /22 from the last /8. I would prefer it if this was the case in the RIPE region as well. That said, I do fear the practical consequences of this proposal. As the possibility to get PA assignments will be dwindling, End Users may look to PI (quite possibly guided there by their ISP who can be a sponsoring LIR). The current difference in pricing between PI and PA address space is a key element of my worry here - a PI assignment costs €50/year, while becoming a LIR and getting the PA /22 would under the proposed 2012 charging scheme cost €1750 (€1000 sign-up fee + €750 yearly fee). In other words, acquiring PA address space is almost nine times as expensive as PI address space. Furthermore End Users may feel it compelling to set up several legal organisations in order to acquire multiple PI assignments from the last /8. This problem is nothing new - under the current policy, an organisation may set up multiple LIRs and receive multiple /22s from the last /8, but the expense of RIPE NCC membership is likely balancing out the cost/benefit assessment. The cost of PI address space, on the other hand, is too small to be a disincentive. I also note that the Impact Analysis warns that this policy may lead to increased fees for members, which would be an undesirable consequence. I don't feel that the members should be sponsoring the non-members; equal access to addresses from the last /8 should mean equal monetary contribution to the NCC. So to sum up - I feel that PI assignments should be allowed from the last /8. However, if they are, I strongly feel that they should be priced more or less the same (per address) as getting an allocation from the last /8 through first becoming an LIR. That said, I don't know if APWG have any influence on the NCC's charging scheme at all. Is it possible for this policy to say something along the lines of «joining the NCC and obtaining a PA allocation from the last /8 should cost approximately the same per address as obtaining a PI assignment from the last /8»? Is that in scope of address policy? (Just to be clear: I am not stating neither support or opposition to the proposal.) -- Tore Anderson Redpill Linpro AS - http://www.redpill-linpro.com

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2012-04 New Draft Document Published (PI Assignments from the last /8)
by Andreas Larsen 11 Sep '12

11 Sep '12

I do NOT support this change. // Andreas Den 2012-09-10 14:16 skrev Emilio Madaio <emadaio(a)ripe.net>: > > > >Dear Colleagues, > >The draft document for the proposal described in 2012-04 has been >published. The impact analysis that was conducted for this proposal >has also been published > > >You can find the full proposal and the impact analysis at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2012-04 > >and the draft document at: > > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2012-04/draft > >We encourage you to read the draft document text and send any comments >to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 8 October. > >Regards > >Emilio Madaio >Policy Development Officer >RIPE NCC > >

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