February 2008 - address-policy-wg

Re: [address-policy-wg] applicability of a request for 60000 IPv4 addresses/systems in one shot...
by Mario Reale 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

Dear Fotis, >Others have done so (EUCHINAGRID project, afaik) and they only thing >they came up to has been, at best, a patch that can provide private-IPv4 >over IPv6. But, private we've got already, so that's not any progress. to be more precise, what EuChinaGRID did was not to provide patches to provide private-IPv4 over IPv6. Within EuChinaGRID we did essentially 2 things: First, we deployed gLite and GOS on a testbed and studied the behavior using IPv6. In doing this studies, we also exploited NAT-PT to perform specific Client-Server studies. Second, since Research and Education network are IPv6 native , we are carrying out several tests, native IPv6, especially within the Chinese part of out project. Regards, Mario Reale EuChinaGRID / Work Package 2 -- Mario Reale Consortium GARR ------------------------ The Italian Academic and Research Network http://www.garr.it Via dei Tizii, 6 I - 00186 ROMA Italy Phone: +39 06 4962 2537 Fax: +39 06 4962 2044 EMail: mario.reale(a)garr.it

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Re: [address-policy-wg] applicability of a request for 60000 IPv4 addresses/systems in one shot...
by Fotis Georgatos 26 Feb '08

26 Feb '08

Dear Michael et al, > Have you investigated how much work would be needed to make the > grid work over IPv6, or perhaps use an IPv6 VPN to connect sites > but use IPv4 over the VPN to use the grid? Others have done so (EUCHINAGRID project, afaik) and they only thing they came up to has been, at best, a patch that can provide private-IPv4 over IPv6. But, private we've got already, so that's not any progress. > Have you asked Athanassios Liakopoulos or Kostas Kalevras > or Dimitrios Kalogeras to look at ways of solving your problem > with the grid and IPv6? Yes, with a majority of them I had already discussed. And we all agree that if there was IPv4 support in glite it would have been so much better. (Or, if we were grid middleware developers, which we are clearly not). > The bottom line is that experimental allocations are made for > experiments > that benefit the whole Internet, not just a few schools in one country. I believe that understanding this as a school experiment is a bit flawed: Has anybody ever done a large VPN-for-VMs IPv4 adress space allocation? I have never heard of something like that (end2end) but perhaps it exists; and am well aware though of some -open/public- IPv6 tunneling solutions. Collecting knowledge from such an endeavour, were thousands of systems with end2end capability run contained in VMs, I believe is worthy for many, the more as multi-cores change the way we understand systems management. In the meantime, we had some more discussions and found out that making a request for public IPv4 address space is OK solely for Virtual Machines, even if the underlying machines already are on public IPv4 address space, as long as the request is indeed justified by real use - and documented. In other words, reserving experimental IPv4 address space is no longer our first option, since normal IPv4 address space appears to be doable. This is something for which we weren't sure earlier, if someone in this wg knows otherwise - in respect to the adress_policy - please let us know. I thank you, and also other recipients in this list, that took time to reply, some privately. Just to clarify what had been the issue, two extra answers: > * If these machines are already internet connected, then no *additional* IP > could be needed The >62000 machines are functioning within 1000s of NATs, in a 10.x.y.z scheme > * If these machines are not already internet connected then having an IP is > the least of yoru worries - you have to think how you are going to *route* > to them :) That's done and works just fine already for many years. There you go. cheers, Fotis

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Update to the IPv4 Registry¹s Format and Content
by Leo Vegoda 21 Feb '08

21 Feb '08

This message has been sent to several lists. I apologise for duplicates. IANA has improved the format for the IPv4 Address Space registry. At the same time, the entries that were marked ³Various Registries² have been replaced with references to the Regional Internet Registry (RIR) that provides WHOIS and reverse DNS service for that /8 allocation. If you want to machine-process the IPv4 registry, the new fields are: * Prefix * Designation * Date * Whois * Status * Note where the Date will always be of the form ³YYYY-MM² and the status has the following possible values: RESERVED, LEGACY, ALLOCATED and UNALLOCATED /8 allocations that contain legacy assignments in them that are now managed by the RIRs have the text ³Administered by² in the Designation column. Legacy assignments refer to IP address allocations made before the RIR system was established. Reserved address space held by IANA does not have a date listed. The registry can be found at: http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space If you have questions about the structure of the new format, please send e-mail to iana(a)iana.org. Kind regards, Leo Vegoda Manager, Number Resources - IANA

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applicability of a request for 60000 IPv4 addresses/systems in one shot...
by Fotis Georgatos 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

Dear all, I am a member of a -yet unofficial- effort in Greece, where we are in discussions on the potential of using Greek School Network resources (calculated at >62000 machines) with a scavenging technology developed in-house by NTUA [ref. http://gridathome.sourceforge.net/ & http://www.ntua.gr ] The idea is quite simple: you boot your systems or Virtual Machines with a LiveCD, you get an initial -normally private- IP address, and *then* a public one from a VPN tunnel, with which you implement and use full grid functionality because there's end2end network connectivity. Yes, there is a catch: this scheme requires extra publicly routable address space, if it is to be integrated with the existing grid infrastructure (and there are plenty of good reasons to do so, for us and others). I've been looking at http://www.ripe.net/docs/ipv4-policies.html and it appears to me that "Assignments for Internetworking Experiments" would be viable option to begin with but, under what conditions can we request standard address space for, say, 60000 PCs or Virtual Machines? What should we make clear in order to make this successfull in one shot? ps. Note that currently these resources lie within hundreds (thousands?), of NAT'd networks, in a multi-tier network. Our LiveWN technology can scale extremelly quickly, much faster than commitees in schools/government. :) The reason I am asking you is because we are about to prepare a TDR, Technical Design Report, and wish to confirm the validity of our options. ps2. at current stage IPv6 is not an option due to grid middleware limitations. thank you in advance for your time, Drs. Fotis Georgatos

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